[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[BloodyAngel12]

The show is clearly pushing the idea that killing is wrong, no matter what, and even when it seems like you should kill a bad guy (i.e. Fisk), you shouldn't. That flies directly in the face of the MCU films, where the superheroes will gladly kill baddies who threaten theirs and others lives.

There is a big difference between a civilian criminal and a Enemy combatant

[Mahourai]

The WSC made the right call, considering their position. If the super peeps had failed, ending the invasion now and lose a city would be the better alternative.

This is Hydra's logic, expressed clearly by Alexander Pierce in Cap 2. The "pragmatic" murder of millions is unacceptable. Or at least it should be. No one in the Avengers has any real reaction to it, and it's not mentioned in subsequent films.

So the Avengers are wrong? The US and the rest of the world fighting against terrorism by killing the terrorists is wrong?

Usually, but not always.

[Arrowstormen]

There is a big difference between a civilian criminal and a Enemy combatant

I tried that spin, but Fisk has caused more harm than most soldiers. Drawing from "Thoughts of a Soldier-Ethicist", people forfeit their right to live if they violate others right to do so. If it counts for soldiers, I don't see why being a criminal and not technically a soldier in the army of a country or organisation makes it better. If anything, it makes it worse.

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This is Hydra's logic, expressed clearly by Alexander Pierce in Cap 2. The "pragmatic" murder of millions is unacceptable. Or at least it should be. No one in the Avengers has any real reaction to it, and it's not mentioned in subsequent films.

I don't know, it worked pretty well in Watchmen.

Hypothetical situation: If you could save the entire planet from some deadly disease, invading army, or whatever, "just" by clicking a button and blowing up one big city, wouldn't you do it? Would it be better if the rest of Earth was purged for life?

[Zoaric]

This is Hydra's logic, expressed clearly by Alexander Pierce in Cap 2. The "pragmatic" murder of millions is unacceptable. Or at least it should be. No one in the Avengers has any real reaction to it, and it's not mentioned in subsequent films.

Kill millions, save billions and thereby Terra.

[Mahourai]

Kill millions, save billions and thereby Terra.

Yes. This is what comes out of the bad guy's mouth in Captain America: Winter Soldier. You are making my case for me. The "bad" guys and the "good" guys act the exact same. The only difference is that the villains are INSANE and LOVE MURDER, while the good guys grimace as they press the button to blow up a city.

[Svifnymr]

Yes. This is what comes out of the bad guy's mouth in Captain America: Winter Soldier. You are making my case for me. The "bad" guys and the "good" guys act the exact same. The only difference is that the villains are INSANE and LOVE MURDER, while the good guys grimace as they press the button to blow up a city.

The core difference is between "we may need to kill a city to save the world" and "we can selectively kill innocent people that may disagree with us at some point".

[Mahourai]

The core difference is between "we may need to kill a city to save the world" and "we can selectively kill innocent people that may disagree with us at some point".

Alexander Pierce believed he was doing the former. They weren't "innocent" victims to him - they were future thoughtcriminals and counter-revolutionaries.

The Illuminati made the decision to nuke NYC before knowing if it was necessary - and it wasn't. They decided to nuke the city because it was a simpler and faster solution, even though it would kill millions.

[Svifnymr]

Alexander Pierce believed he was doing the former. They weren't "innocent" victims to him - they were future thoughtcriminals and counter-revolutionaries.

Yeah, but when you start your plans with Hail Hydra and your plans are based on the totalitarian regime your nazi masters failed at, it's still not an equivalent thing. Basing your index of folks on personal enemies is not the same thing as collateral damage in a military operation.

The Illuminati made the decision to nuke NYC before knowing if it was necessary - and it wasn't. They decided to nuke the city because it was a simpler and faster solution, even though it would kill millions.

"The Illuminati" as you term them seem more like a NATO command or similar. They may be shadowy figures to Fury, but the idea seems to have changed from Avengers 1 to Cap2. SHIELD is a known thing in the world. They didn't decide to nuke a city because their personal enemies were there. They did so because they had no faith in the Avengers and the alternative was an alien invasion.

[Mahourai]

Yeah, but when you start your plans with Hail Hydra and your plans are based on the totalitarian regime your nazi masters failed at, it's still not an equivalent thing.

The difference is that Pierce is visibly a fascist, while the command structure of SHIELD is fascist and authoritarian but proclaims it is serving democracy and freedom.

SHIELD is Hydra with better PR. This is why, when Pierce tells them that they'd use his methods, the only rebuttal they can muster is that they wouldn't because he is an asshole. They don't disagree with him ideologically. They're the bad guys too. Captain America understands this by the time of Winter Soldier, which is why he decides that SHIELD must be destroyed. But of course, it isn't. Maria Hill and whatnot will continue SHIELD's activities under the guise of working under other branches of the US intelligence apparatus, and that's not even counting the fact that SHIELD continued to operate in secret.

Because when they cut the head off SHIELD, more took its place.

[Svifnymr]

The difference is that Pierce is visibly a fascist, while the command structure of SHIELD is fascist and authoritarian but proclaims it is serving democracy and freedom.

Nyah, SHIELD's just a large organization. You're giving them too much direction. Hydra was at least more organized. You really did latch onto an idea and are riding it for all it's worth though.

[Mahourai]

Nyah, SHIELD's just a large organization. You're giving them too much direction. Hydra was at least more organized.

SHIELD is more centralized and authoritarian than Hydra, unless we're to assume that Hydra has a command base in the shape of a skull like the Legion of Doom.

[Traveler Voltin]

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/news/ma...183739746.html

So really bad one liners spiderman?

[BloodyAngel12]

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/news/ma...183739746.html

So really bad one liners spiderman?

More like quips and witty chatter as well as bad jokes and non stop banter.

Im totally ok with that because thats what i want to see most. Closest we go was Garefield's banter.

[Mormolyce]

So who else is gonna sit through the credits anyway incase they were trolling us with the no end credits scene.

Every single time.

Kinda wish films would stop doing it.

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More like quips and witty chatter as well as bad jokes and non stop banter.

Im totally ok with that because thats what i want to see most. Closest we go was Garefield's banter.

For about 30 seconds before the film decided to swap back to being a hollow attempt to mimic the Raimi Spider-Man's tone. Or just being plain awful.

My brain is still vomiting from that last Amazing Spider-Man movie. Garfield might've been a decent Spider-Man with the right script, but dear god the writing...

[BloodyAngel12]

Every single time.

Kinda wish films would stop doing it.

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For about 30 seconds before the film decided to swap back to being a hollow attempt to mimic the Raimi Spider-Man's tone. Or just being plain awful.

My brain is still vomiting from that last Amazing Spider-Man movie. Garfield might've been a decent Spider-Man with the right script, but dear god the writing...

Just in the first Asm film, where hes sat in the back of the car and pops up as the criminal tries to steal it. That whole bit felt very spiderman to me.

[Arrowstormen]

For about 30 seconds before the film decided to swap back to being a hollow attempt to mimic the Raimi Spider-Man's tone. Or just being plain awful.

My brain is still vomiting from that last Amazing Spider-Man movie. Garfield might've been a decent Spider-Man with the right script, but dear god the writing...

It never tried to mimic Raimi's cheesy school-drama (or whatever you call it) featuring superheroes. TASM 2 was messy because it tried to do too many things, but I thought the individual bits were fine. Garfield's Spidey was pretty spot on imo.

[Ausr]

It never tried to mimic Raimi's cheesy school-drama (or whatever you call it) featuring superheroes. TASM 2 was messy because it tried to do too many things, but I thought the individual bits were fine. Garfield's Spidey was pretty spot on imo.

He was a lousy Parker, a great Spider-Man.

[Arrowstormen]

He was a lousy Parker, a great Spider-Man.

I don't know what a "good" Peter is then, surely not Tobey's take. Completely ludicrous how clumsy he were, considering his powers.

[Deleted]

Movies and TV-series have double standards when it comes to this topic, they contradict themselves. In this small, violent, brutal part of New York City, Daredevil killing is wrong and downright abhorrent, and the show teaches us that we shouldn't kill.

ROFLMAO! Do you live on planet tv where you put your kids in front of the tv from 9 to 5?
TV Shows like Daredavil are to ENTERTAIN us not to teach something.

[Lucetia]

I don't know what a "good" Peter is then, surely not Tobey's take. Completely ludicrous how clumsy he were, considering his powers.

I know everyone has their opinion on this, but to me both were completely meh. If I had to pick one though I'd prefer Toby over Andrew. Andrew (along with other things) made both movies completely unwatchable for me. I watched each once and that's it, at least Toby's I've seen several times. Granted neither are good and that's if I had to put either or.

Though personally the only Spider-Man I've been able to stand to date is the '90s animated version. Everything else on Spider-Man so far has been rather meh to me. Really hoping with Marvel working with Sony on it that it'll actually be a decent Spider-Man and put the other two to shame.

ROFLMAO! Do you live on planet tv where you put your kids in front of the tv from 9 to 5?

TV Shows like Daredavil are to ENTERTAIN us not to teach something.

My momma always said if you can't learn something from TV then don't watch it. Oh wait......she didn't :P