[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[RobertoCarlos]

I mean, you're not wrong, but perhaps that's asking a bit too much from a franchise like this. ESPECIALLY if it's about a movie-only character, and not one with a series, where there's more time to flesh out and explore.

There isn't a whole lot of character development in the MCU, even with the big single-name marquee characters. Iron Man and Spider-Man are arguably the ones that developed the most, but that was over a ton of movies in which they were the sole main character. Even someone like Captain America is basically still a flat cliché with very little actual personality; heck, Bucky is a lot more interesting, thanks in part to the series he was in.

Now, don't get me wrong: I'm with you, it'd be great if they showed some actual depth and made it clear why we're supposed to care. But it's hard to do if you're just one character in an ensemble cast that basically only had 2.5 movies. Movies that, at the end of the day, are a lot more about one-liners and big boom-booms than they are about plot and character development.

They are capable of and have done it in the past though.

In the past they have been good at adding layers within the constraits of character bloat and limited movie run time.

All the stuff with Ironman And Cap America was great as they stood on opposite current day political ideologies. Plus the winter solider angle in arguably one of the best movies Cap American 2 winter solider which lead into civil war.

Likewise the chemistry between Robert downy Jr and Tom Holland as a father figure to spider man. They dont actually have much screen time together but they share some of the best emotional moments in the series.

I guess I just miss Robert Downy Jr and Chris Evans who are incredible actors capable of lifting the material especially with directors in their prime like the russo's

[Biomega]

They are capable of and have done it in the past though.

In the past they have been good at adding layers within the constraits of character bloat and limited movie run time.

All the stuff with Ironman And Cap America was great as they stood on opposite current day political ideologies. Plus the winter solider angle in arguably one of the best movies Cap American 2 winter solider which lead into civil war.

Likewise the chemistry between Robert downy Jr and Tom Holland as a father figure to spider man. They dont actually have much screen time together but they share some of the best emotional moments in the series.

I guess I just miss Robert Downy Jr and Chris Evans who are incredible actors capable of lifting the material especially with directors in their prime like the russo's

That's what I'm saying, though - Iron Man, Spider-Man, and Captain America are probably THE biggest single characters in the MCU, having had massive focus solely on them over many movies. And even then, Captain America BARELY went anywhere, falling into the typical "Superman trap" of the do-gooder justice warrior who's more righteous than an overeager 14-year-old's DND Paladin. I do agree, though, that Iron Man and Spider-Man worked out splendidly, and their dynamics carry a ton of weight. Extremely well done on every level.

The problem is, a character like Gamora just doesn't have the luxury of 3 solo films, 2 crossovers, and a lead role in 4 team-up movies. She's just one character in a team lineup that had two team movies, and some presence in one crossover. That's it. They just didn't give themselves the tools needed to flesh her out more - and maybe that was a mistake, and you could well argue that they should have done it differently. But given things are as they are, that's just kind of not where we arrived at.

[RobertoCarlos]

That's what I'm saying, though - Iron Man, Spider-Man, and Captain America are probably THE biggest single characters in the MCU, having had massive focus solely on them over many movies. And even then, Captain America BARELY went anywhere, falling into the typical "Superman trap" of the do-gooder justice warrior who's more righteous than an overeager 14-year-old's DND Paladin. I do agree, though, that Iron Man and Spider-Man worked out splendidly, and their dynamics carry a ton of weight. Extremely well done on every level.

The problem is, a character like Gamora just doesn't have the luxury of 3 solo films, 2 crossovers, and a lead role in 4 team-up movies. She's just one character in a team lineup that had two team movies, and some presence in one crossover. That's it. They just didn't give themselves the tools needed to flesh her out more - and maybe that was a mistake, and you could well argue that they should have done it differently. But given things are as they are, that's just kind of not where we arrived at.

Yeah its perhaps unfair to compare those characters as they have had more movies/screen time. But at the same time Ironman 2, and 3 for example dont really add anything to the character and its not till civil war/infinity war where Ironman really steps up and we get his best scenes. Where as with Cap, he kinda comes in strong with a decent first film and then a 9/10 2nd movie but then after that I feel like they totally waste him in the infinity war/end game saga apart from maybe the last big battle with thanos. Hes definitely wasted in infinity war.

Gamora has been a constant prescence for awhile now between the guardian films and the cross over films. And they just focused on the love interest with Quill and her sister having a vendetta against her that gets resolved. Just feels a bit wasted.

[Biomega]

Gamora has been a constant prescence for awhile now between the guardian films and the cross over films. And they just focused on the love interest with Quill and her sister having a vendetta against her that gets resolved. Just feels a bit wasted.

Kind of ironic that her plot-device sister ended up the character with actual development. She's way more interesting than Gamora. XD

[Syegfryed]

Kind of ironic that her plot-device sister ended up the character with actual development. She's way more interesting than Gamora. XD

That actually was a rly weird turn of events, not saying her arc was bad, i think it was rly decent, but it was rly weird.

Talking about the guardians in general, i think the first movie was fun, not much fan of the second, but i just don't like this "Super-team" Quill is supposed to be half-something else, but he is.... just a normal Human... i don't see any super-power, which is what i seek in these kinds of movies, everyone is just bleh and forgettable besides Gamora

[SavoirFaire]

Quill is supposed to be half-something else, but he is.... just a normal Human... i don't see any super-power, which is what i seek in these kinds of movies, everyone is just bleh and forgettable besides Gamora

Am I the only one that never got the impression Drax was all that strong/durable until the Christmas special? I know his comic counterpart is certainly up there, but the movies he seemed like a regular dude/joke character that was unremarkable otherwise. Certainly never expected him to shrug off bullets and flip a car with ease based on what we’ve seen before that.

[eschatological]

Kind of ironic that her plot-device sister ended up the character with actual development. She's way more interesting than Gamora. XD

That one scene with Nebula and Tony Stark at the beginning of Endgame was more than Gamora ever got in anything. It kinda crystallizes her character arc into being one of the good guys after a life of trying to do everything to please Thanos. It's so bizarre that I cared more for Nebula by the end of it than alternate-Gamora.

[Endus]

That one scene with Nebula and Tony Stark at the beginning of Endgame was more than Gamora ever got in anything. It kinda crystallizes her character arc into being one of the good guys after a life of trying to do everything to please Thanos. It's so bizarre that I cared more for Nebula by the end of it than alternate-Gamora.

I think they were kind of stuck. They almost certainly had plans to kill Gamora off as they did from fairly early on. Any time invested into characterizing her would've gone into a character they knew they were killing off in a couple movies. Alternate-world Gamora could be "real Gamora" in terms of character development, where the first was "placeholder Gamora", but that would also mean this upcoming film is basically the first opportunity they've really had to dig into her character at all.

I'm not particularly a fan of that kind of writing, but that's because I very much think character deaths should be horrible gut-punches as a character with so much story left get killed. Wash at the end of Serenity is a perfect example. Killing a character because their story's basically over is just a writer cleaning up their workshop and sweeping away the trash. Think Han Solo in The Force Awakens, by comparison. He'd served his narrative purpose and the writers were just cleaning up. I'd have gone into a lot more detail with Gamora, fleshed her out, made her budding romance with Quill precious and cute and she's just starting to really crack, and THEN Thanos chucks her off a cliff. And alternate Gamora would be different, all those little quirks are gone and replaced by new, jarring ones, and my story from there is Quill realizing he loved his Gamora and this Gamora's just not her. He lost that forever. But that's probably not gonna sell as many tickets because it's not a story with a quick happy ending, it's a slow character grind exploring nuanced and complex characters and making the audience feel Gamora's loss as deeply as Quill must be.

Most of the above doesn't apply to self-sacrifices. Tony's sacrifice at the end of Endgame makes the character, and ties off his arc; it's what his story led him to, giving up more and more of himself to save his world, until he had to give up everything. The character's choosing death, it's not being forced upon them.

[Syegfryed]

Am I the only one that never got the impression Drax was all that strong/durable until the Christmas special? I know his comic counterpart is certainly up there, but the movies he seemed like a regular dude/joke character that was unremarkable otherwise. Certainly never expected him to shrug off bullets and flip a car with ease based on what we’ve seen before that.

Yeha, he seems a bit strong in the first movie in a few scenes, then nothing much, but this is also a problem of MCU power levels being bad and all over the place

[Witchblade77]

personaly I very much cared about Gamora, but for me her story arc was not about Starlord, it was about her relationship with Nebula and I guess as an older sister myself, I found a lot more to relate there. I'm sure people would say that it was really Nebula's arc, but I think it was Gamora's as well and part of what made it such a gutpunch is that Nebula just got her sister that she wanted all her life.... only to lose her to their abusive father.... again.

[RobertoCarlos]

Kind of ironic that her plot-device sister ended up the character with actual development. She's way more interesting than Gamora. XD

Totally.

I felt way more for Nebula in the screen where Thanos has her body ripped apart.

That asian tiger parent style just tugs on my heart strings.

Its a similar trope in anime where despite your best efforts you are never good enough in the eyes of those that love you most, and its normally always quite poignant because we can all relate on some level to feeling inadequate at some point in life

[Ihavewaffles]

[Kn83]

Im not sure it would have been better if it ended that way

[VMSmith]

Jeremy Renner was involved in a "snow plowing" accident today and has had two surgeries today, he has been described as having "extensive" injuries. The good news is that he's in critical, but stable, condition, so hopefully he'll pull through.

[Kyphael]

Jeremy Renner was involved in a "snow plowing" accident today and has had two surgeries today, he has been described as having "extensive" injuries. The good news is that he's in critical, but stable, condition, so hopefully he'll pull through.

I saw on the morning news. Really hoping he makes a full recovery. I know accidents can happen anywhere, and mother nature can strike in any climate, but hell if I'd be plowing snow in those conditions if I have his back account balance. More like, hell I'd be living somewhere where that much snow can fall in the winter that I'd need to plow.

[Makabreska]

[Syegfryed]

I had a feeling that Ant-man would be overshadow in his on movie by everyone else, but i bet five bucks they will prob kill him too, sad.

honestly in this trailer, i didn't like anything But Kang, he looks fucking awesome.

[Ausr]

I had a feeling that Ant-man would be overshadow in his on movie by everyone else, but i bet five bucks they will prob kill him too, sad.

honestly in this trailer, i didn't like anything But Kang, he looks fucking awesome.

Movie about Scott: "He's so overshadowed!"

[Syegfryed]

Movie about Scott: "He's so overshadowed!"

Did you saw the last movies right? Strange got overshadowed by Wanda and America, Thor overshadowed by Lady thor and Valkyrie, i see a pattern that i think it will continue in this movie as well.

[MCMLXXXII]

Yeah I hope they don't give Evangeline Lily too much screentime as the Wasp in a movie called Ant-Man and the Wasp