12 year old girl speaks against abortion, and she does it well.

[Alexinho]

So you feel calling someone Promiscuous, stating they have many sexual partners is the same as calling them a slut?

It means the same thing. You're only sugar coating it.

If a woman gets pregnant and can not provide a good environment for a child is it still a good idea to have one?

No. You are not God. You don't get to say '' Poverty is worse than death ''.

[Deleted]

Yes, because the statistics have no proof behind them.

Are we just gonna ignore the references and pretend they lie?

• Fifty-one percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method in the month they got pregnant, most commonly condoms (27%) or a hormonal method (17%).[7]

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_in...bortion.html#7

Check what #7 is, in the references.

[Endus]

Twists my words all that you want.

That isn't "twisting", it's literally what you said.

You are fine with abortions for women who were raped, because they didn't choose to have sex and shouldn't suffer the consequences.

You're against abortions for women who choose to have sex, because you think they should.

It's an inherently and blatantly misogynistic position. You're supporting pro-life as an attack on women's right to sexual freedom. That's exactly what you just said.

[ATZenith]

Wow guys you should keep the thread on topic.

[Deleted]

Yes, because the statistics have no proof behind them.

Unless they took women to polygraph tests and tested their blood there is no way in hell 51% of them used contraception.

No way.

They said they did to save face. Happens often.

I get the feeling that if they had done the blood tests as well as polygraph one that you'd say the participating parties cheated them...

[Mormolyce]

Women's rights does not mean you have the right to kill a person.

You should be responsible enough to ever A) use birth control or B) have him wear a condom.

You murdered a person cause of your selfishness.

If you have a shred of decency you'll apologise to her.

[Man-of-Blue]

Appeal to emotion, how sweet.

No, I believe abortion in rape cases are valid so you can save the mother from being EVEN MORE traumatised.

I have sympathy to those that are sexually abused.

None for those that sleep around and get pregant because they screwed up.

Okay, that's just your opinion. A shitty one at that. Also, what difference does it make if the woman winds up pregnant from rape or from consensual sex? The result of the abortion is the same. The ending of a potential human life. Why aren't you against pregnancies, that are caused by rape, being terminated? Does the fetus that came to being, by rape, no longer count as a person in your eyes?

It sounds like you just feel like punishing women for enjoying casual sex. Forcing them to go through an unwanted pregnancy as a form of punishment is kinda sick.

[Alexinho]

That isn't "twisting", it's literally what you said.

You are fine with abortions for women who were raped, because they didn't choose to have sex and shouldn't suffer the consequences.

You're against abortions for women who choose to have sex, because you think they should.

It's an inherently and blatantly misogynistic position. You're supporting pro-life as an attack on women's right to sexual freedom. That's exactly what you just said.

I'm fine with abortions for women who were raped to protect them from further damage because of a thing they had no part in.

I'm against abortions for women who willingly had sex because they have no one to blame but themselves and their partner.

It's an inherently and blatantly misogynistic position.

How is it misogynistic?

You're supporting pro-life as an attack on women's right to sexual freedom

I'm supporting pro life on the basis that innocents should not be punished for something they didn't do.

[Alexinho]

Which is inconsistent with allowing abortion in cases of rape, punishing the "innocents" for the crimes of the father.

It's the smaller of two evils.

[Deleted]

How is it misogynistic?

You literally want to punish women who do not adhere to your view of how sex should be done, by forcing them to be pregnant against their will should birth control fail. How is that not misogynistic?

[Alexinho]

In this topic alone you have made an argument about birth control in the past, then admitted you really knew nothing about it, then we you got called on you BS, you stated it was no longer relevant.

Birth control 20 years ago.

I don't think you have to worry about other people twisting your own words.

You just did.

[Ghazan Julio]

I had an abortion and I have no regrets.

Also, while I applaud little girls having a mind of their own on women's rights and the rights of the fetus, I do not consult 12 year olds when considering my reproductive rights.

Good for you, fuck other people it's none of their business.

[Mormolyce]

Yes, because the statistics have no proof behind them.

Unless they took women to polygraph tests and tested their blood there is no way in hell 51% of them used contraception.

No way.

They said they did to save face. Happens often.

Not sure what's more preposterous, your belief that condoms are infallible or that polygraphs are.

You're failing at probability here. Imagine a suit of armour that has a 99% chance of protecting you from arrows. You do a survey of people who died from arrow wounds and find that 50% of them wore the armour. Why? Because your sample includes only those people who died from arrow wounds, you're NOT seeing the huge population of people who wore the armour and DIDN'T die to an arrow.

.99⁶⁹=.4998370299

x^y = the probability of getting the same outcome each time over y trials where x is the probability of the outcome in one trial and the trials are independent of each other.

Essentially, if condoms are effective 99 out of 100 times, having sex that could conceivably result in pregnancy just 69 times gives you a 50% chance of condom failure.

Also, they're only 99% effective when they're undamaged and used correctly.

[Deleted]

I'm supporting pro life on the basis that innocents should not be punished for something they didn't do.

Then how in Satan's unholy name can you say that women who are raped should be allowed to abort?

You claim that it's to prevent further scarring to the mother but at its core that argument 'punishes an innocent' and is more focused on quality of life than sanctity of life, thus making your position hypocritical.

It means the same thing. You're only sugar coating it.

The 'N' word means black person but, like 'slut' is an insult. It's not sugar coating to not insult somebody by using a word designed or used to insult.

[Endus]

I'm fine with abortions for women who were raped to protect them from further damage because of a thing they had no part in.

I'm against abortions for women who willingly had sex because they have no one to blame but themselves and their partner.

You're just re-iterating the same thing. Explaining it again doesn't change what it means, dude. It's still attacking women for daring to make their own sexual choices.

How is it misogynistic?

Because you're attacking "women who willingly had sex" and trying to deny them rights to bodily autonomy. Why on earth should a woman choosing to have sex necessitate her dealing with an unwanted pregnancy? You could use the same argument to argue that they shouldn't be allowed to get STD treatment, because they "have no one to blame but themselves and their partner".

I'm supporting pro life on the basis that innocents should not be punished for something they didn't do.

Except for fetuses whose fathers raped their mothers. You seemed pretty clear that you were okay with the death penalty for them. Despite arguing that they're people.

[Alexinho]

You literally want to punish women who do not adhere to your view of how sex should be done, by forcing them to be pregnant against their will should birth control fail. How is that not misogynistic?

It's not misogynistic because you can't make men do the same.

It's as sexist as men not having a say whether or not a woman aborts and having no choice but to pay child support if they do not.

Except for fetuses whose fathers raped their mothers. You seemed pretty clear that you were okay with the death penalty for them.

Lesser of two evils.

Because you're attacking "women who willingly had sex" and trying to deny them rights to bodily autonomy.

They had plenty when they chose to have sex.

[Mormolyce]

I'm fine with abortions for women who were raped to protect them from further damage because of a thing they had no part in.

I'm against abortions for women who willingly had sex because they have no one to blame but themselves and their partner.

Your personal dislike of "promiscuous" women is in no way relevant to this debate. It's none of your business who someone sleeps with, and you can't deny them a medical procedure because you don't like the choices they made.

- - - Updated - - -

Lesser of two evils.

Just as abortion is the lesser of two evils between terminating a fetus and the state telling people what they can and can't do with their own genitals.

[Alexinho]

Your personal dislike of "promiscuous" women is in no way relevant to this debate. It's none of your business who someone sleeps with, and you can't deny them a medical procedure because you don't like the choices they made.

I'm aware I can't. Would, if I could.

[Xeonii]

Having children is both cash and time expensive. If a young woman (late teens, early twenties) has a child, they're likely going to have to spend all of their time working a dead-end job to support the child. What's important is that everyone has time to pursue education without the hindrance of a newborn. Basically, forcing a woman to follow through with child birth is like forcing them into a lifetime contract that states they'll rarely climb the work force ladder that is already more difficult to climb then males.

My girlfriend had a pregnancy scare about a year ago, and I was ready to support her in her decision for abortion. I wouldn't dare ruin her life with a child that she's not ready to provide for and spend time with. Luckily, she ended up not being pregnant, and we gained a good bit of insight on how difficult life would have been.

[Mormolyce]

I think the CDC says that in practice they actually have like an 18% failure rate, which is kind of really, really high for what is probably (read: I don't feel like looking it up) either the #1 or #2 most popular form of birth control.

Probably all depends on the parameters of the study. In short, don't rely on condoms alone.

Scary part is that although you can go condoms + the pill for contraception, the condom is your only defense against STDs.