Resto Druid Help...am I really that bad?

[Rowin]

I've been playing a resto druid for 6 years. I cant believe I've become this bad, yet the numbers don't lie. I refuse to accept that I'm this bad, so that can only mean one thing.. something is very wrong. I've tried to get other rdruids to run some lfrs with me so I can log it and see what is missing (why don't people want to help you with stuff like this?) to no avail. So here I am, coming to the experts, the number crunchers, the people who I know will help me.

Here's my toon: 579 looks good, although I'd like to drop to my 2 set at this point battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Rowin/simple}

and some logs from my last guild run...which...there's another resto druid in there doing way more than me who "doesn't have time" to help me
warcraftlogs.com/reports/rVDBMwv2gpKkxaCy#type=healing warcraftlogs.com/reports/rVDBMwv2gpKkxaCy#type=healing&fight=11}

(love warcraft logs over wol) Please people... I love this game and raiding it the only thing that makes it worth while for me.

I use healbot, double checked my settings...they look good, have weak auras to track some other stuff as well as needtoknow and a bunch of other addons to help. I'd appreciate anything that anyone can tell me. I KNOW I'm a better healer than this. I've known something's been wrong but have been unable to figure it out.

[trekker9876]

are you using your mushroom? plant it on the tank or the group and aoe heal the hell out of things
I dont see nourish on your logs at all

[Aleks0410]

I dont see nourish on your logs at all

I'm really confused now

[Thalur]

I've been playing a resto druid for 6 years. I cant believe I've become this bad, yet the numbers don't lie. I refuse to accept that I'm this bad, so that can only mean one thing.. something is very wrong. I've tried to get other rdruids to run some lfrs with me so I can log it and see what is missing (why don't people want to help you with stuff like this?) to no avail. So here I am, coming to the experts, the number crunchers, the people who I know will help me.

I looked over your report a bit, although I must say I'm not an expert with WCL and find some things much easier to evaluate with WOL. The Juggernaut fight you linked is not a good fight to evaluate your performance because you died at the beginning of the healing-intensive phase and were resurrected only after it ended.

First a general thing: you have way too much spirit. And I'm not saying that because you have more than some arbitrary number, but because you don't use you regen skills, so you must have too much mana.

Let's have a look at Thok, usually the most intense healing fight. Your raid seems to be using one (or even two) more healers than necessary, so quite a bit more overheal is to be expected. The fight was 7:26, or 5:50 before you died. You only used one Innervate and no mana pot on the most healing-intensive fight ingame. I'll go over some other things I noticed.

1) You did not use Tranquility in the first P1. First time you used it was at 4:10, so no reason not to use it during the first minute.

2) Your main issue seems to be SotF/WG. It looks like you never used SotF for Wild Growth - thus missing out on AoE healing big time. Just to give you some numbers, you cast WG 21 times, giving you 1500 ticks or 20 mio raw healing. On the first 5 minutes of our last Thok kill, I cast WG 17 times, giving me 2000 ticks or 25 mio healing. I don't know what you used SotF for, but it doesn't matter - this has to go to WG. Especially on Thok.

3) You have too few SotF uses (= SM casts). 12 uses in 5:50 continuous AoE fight is too few, even if you delay it to use it with every other WG (every 20 sec), you should get at least 15 uses.

4) You seem to use way too few Rejuv. Maybe it's because you know you have too many healers and you don't need it, but if not, that's where you can get a lot more healing from. Especially since you do have the spare mana.

5) It looks like you generally need to cast more spells. In a fight like Thok P1, you want to use every GCD for meaningful healing. You only cast 82 Rejuv, 21 WG, 32 Lb, 29 single target heals, while your other druid cast 135 Rejuv, 18 WG, 22 Lb, 1 more Tranq, and 18 single target heals. 50 Rejuvs difference is no small thing.

6) You didn't use barkskin at all.

Other than that, don't look at the healing meter too much. On Thok, disc and shaman are quite OP and out of reach for druids, you should usually be able to heal more than a paladin, but only if you don't overheal too much (and 7 healers at your gear level is really overkill).
Hope I could help a bit, there's probably a lot more to see in the logs but as I said I'm not used to WCL.

[Rowin]

Hope I could help a bit, there's probably a lot more to see in the logs but as I said I'm not used to WCL.[/QUOTE]



I almost never use Noursh. It's a waste of a heal with that ridiculous cast time imho and Im perfectly fine with them removing it. Low cost, long cast heal. If it had a shorter cast time, I might value it more.

for Iron Jugg, I was assigned the healing cd for that part when someone so wonderfully ran the beam through the oil and blew me up (and some others) so I missed my rotation and they dont like us to use major cd's out of turn.

For Thok, we're assigned healing cd #'s...sadly, this fight I was way at the end, so we pushed the phase before I got a chance to use it. With SM on a 15sec cd and WG on a 10, they dont always line up when I use WG every cd. I guess I'll have to save it so they do line up and I get the full effect of both. I tend to spread rejuvs then hit Genesis quite a bit on the screech as well as blowing my shroom at that time as well... I guess Im not rejuving enough. We have alot of mana rejen's for that fight, so typically I dont need my Inneravate or alchy pot, although, Im fairly certain I do innervate myself..

I look at Immersus and I just cant coordinate the buff with being near enough people to (or maybe rejuving them isnt enough as I keep my tranq for the 3rd immersion). Malk it's pre pot, engineer gloves, sm, tranq then rejuvs, sm and wg's around and Im still not matching the numbers I know I could be pulling.

so, really, just heal more is your suggestion? maybe my screen isnt refreshing enough as I feel like Im casting every gcd, something, somewhere, on someone. It's so frustrating to know youre better than youre performing. I dont have any lag issues and the machine is less than a year old.

if you want to look at WOL, I keep as well, under Rowin-Sargeras. Im open to any suggestions anyone who wants to help in anyway. I love WOW and I want to be what I know I can be.

[Deleted]

Hope I could help a bit, there's probably a lot more to see in the logs but as I said I'm not used to WCL.

I almost never use Noursh. It's a waste of a heal with that ridiculous cast time imho and Im perfectly fine with them removing it. Low cost, long cast heal. If it had a shorter cast time, I might value it more.

Yeah, I don't know what that was supposed to mean!

For Thok, we're assigned healing cd #'s...sadly, this fight I was way at the end, so we pushed the phase before I got a chance to use it. With SM on a 15sec cd and WG on a 10, they dont always line up when I use WG every cd. I guess I'll have to save it so they do line up and I get the full effect of both. I tend to spread rejuvs then hit Genesis quite a bit on the screech as well as blowing my shroom at that time as well... I guess Im not rejuving enough. We have alot of mana rejen's for that fight, so typically I dont need my Inneravate or alchy pot, although, Im fairly certain I do innervate myself..

I look at Immersus and I just cant coordinate the buff with being near enough people to (or maybe rejuving them isnt enough as I keep my tranq for the 3rd immersion). Malk it's pre pot, engineer gloves, sm, tranq then rejuvs, sm and wg's around and Im still not matching the numbers I know I could be pulling.

so, really, just heal more is your suggestion? maybe my screen isnt refreshing enough as I feel like Im casting every gcd, something, somewhere, on someone. It's so frustrating to know youre better than youre performing. I dont have any lag issues and the machine is less than a year old.

if you want to look at WOL, I keep as well, under Rowin-Sargeras. Im open to any suggestions anyone who wants to help in anyway. I love WOW and I want to be what I know I can be.

I raid 10s, so all of this may not apply on 25s...

What are you using SotF on if not WG? It does seem like you're not making enough of it. You aren't using SM on CD, so if you aren't tracking it's CD, then make an aura for it. Obviously there are some times where everyones at full, but thok isn't really one of those fights, plsu you really do want the buff for WG. If you absolutely have to cast WG on cd, then you can SotF every other WG, but for pure hps, you're generally better off saving it.

On the Thok fight you linked it looks as though you got double fixated, so not doing that would help your overall hps (if you move in while he's casting the next fixate, he will prefer someone further away). If you just look at that P1, to eliminate the differences caused by the fixates (warcraftlogs.com/reports/rVDBMwv2gpKkxaCy#type=auras&source=12&start=11599234&end=11707560) you cast rejuv 33 times and your fellow resto cast rejuv 67 times, so did double the healing. So yes, really you need to rejuv more. Using genesis is generally a hps loss as well, each time you cast it you could have used that GCD on another rejuv and increased your output. There's another thread around with the actual maths.

It also looks like you used NV at the start (the other guy didn't at all so assume he's running HotW?), there's not much healing to do (at least on 10s) until screech 4-5, so i tend to wait and pop NV then, otherwise all the smart healing is a bit wasted - for you it did ~51% overheal; just for comparison, on our last kill of thok, my overheal with NV was ~16%. Although you bloomed 6 times, it also did only 3.65m ~50% overheal. You colleague only cast twice, but still did 2.97m healing with only 11% overheal, so you can probably be a little smarter about it's use.

With all that said, and to reiterate Thalur, there's only ever a finite amount of healing that needs to be done, so if you are still using the same number of healers now as you did for progress, you're never going to be able to pad the meters with so many absorbs in your comp.

[Thalur]

so, really, just heal more is your suggestion?

I think I gave you quite a few more pointers than just heal more. I hadn't seen that you were using Genesis so much on Thok, that can explain a bit why your Rejuv healing is so low.

Not using SotF on WG at all, and casting Genesis 16 times in the Thok fight, are no small mistakes, but big no-gos that gimp your healing output. It seems you're not as good as you think and need to learn (or re-learn) a few basics for druid healing. Not using Barkskin at all on Thok also shows you're not using the full potential of your class. Your Might of Ursok use was completely wasted. There is definitely a lot of room to improve, even though that won't put you on top of the healing meters.

[Asrialol]

I dont see nourish on your logs at all

Haha, what? People use Nourish?

[Deleted]

Haha, what? People use Nourish?

Yeah. I almost always cast something, nourish is fine as a filler.

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If you look at the graph and only display his healing and yours you seem pretty even, except that he uses a major cooldown that bursts his healing to above 600k.

It's the same for Thok.

His tranquility seems to heal for twice the amount yours does.

I use wild growth on cd too, and put the haste buff into another heal (if WG is on cd). Often lifebloom on tank so it ticks faster.

Try using SM with tranq if people are really low, that does wonders. Great to get everyone a quick shield on Malkorok.

[Trubo]

Yeah. I almost always cast something, nourish is fine as a filler.

So is Rejuv and considering the mana regen currently available why would I waste time casting Nourish?

If you look at the graph and only display his healing and yours you seem pretty even, except that he uses a major cooldown that bursts his healing to above 600k.

It's the same for Thok.

His tranquility seems to heal for twice the amount yours does.

I use wild growth on cd too, and put the haste buff into another heal (if WG is on cd). Often lifebloom on tank so it ticks faster.

Try using SM with tranq if people are really low, that does wonders. Great to get everyone a quick shield on Malkorok.

SotF+Tranq is only worth using on Thok if you don't have a Paladin to grant you Interrupt immunity. Even then you're probably going to burn 30%+ of the healing as overhealing.

[Tatahe]

Haha, what? People use Nourish?

I almost never use it... it's a filler if you wanna refresh mastery without spend any mana in a 100% HP target, like a tank.

[Deleted]

So is Rejuv and considering the mana regen currently available why would I waste time casting Nourish?

In 10 man not everyone is within range all the time so there is time to cast nourish (since you can have rejuv up on everyone you reach). I use nourish on dark shamans for example. Not a lot, but I did cast it 9 times last kill.

[Trubo]

In 10 man not everyone is within range all the time so there is time to cast nourish (since you can have rejuv up on everyone you reach). I use nourish on dark shamans for example. Not a lot, but I did cast it 9 times last kill.

Well, if we want to get into the nitty gritty when during Dark Shamans were you using Nourish? If the target had a Rejuv or other HoT on them and there wasn't incoming damage before the HoT would fill their health pool then you're overhealing by casting Nourish.

[Rowin]

I think I gave you quite a few more pointers than just heal more. I hadn't seen that you were using Genesis so much on Thok, that can explain a bit why your Rejuv healing is so low..

I didnt mean to minimize any of your comments and I most certainly value everything you said. Maybe I misunderstand the true nature of Genesis and it's impact on hps overall. Clearly I do need to relearn and reunderstand just how to heal. so sad to think that after 6 years of healing that I have become bad

Anything anyone else has, please, lay it on me...I want to be better

[Trubo]

I didnt mean to minimize any of your comments and I most certainly value everything you said. Maybe I misunderstand the true nature of Genesis and it's impact on hps overall. Clearly I do need to relearn and reunderstand just how to heal. so sad to think that after 6 years of healing that I have become bad

Anything anyone else has, please, lay it on me...I want to be better

Genesis is an ability that sounded good on paper but didn't really pan out given how healing works currently. Too much ramp time and loss of throughput stats to justify it for more than that exceedingly rare OH SHIT moment or as a way to charge Wild Mushroom faster.

[Pennoyer]

I think I gave you quite a few more pointers than just heal more. I hadn't seen that you were using Genesis so much on Thok, that can explain a bit why your Rejuv healing is so low.

I can see why the other rdruid "doesn't have time to help" this guy...

[theburned]

To point out some stuff for the thok fight

Lifebloom its 50-60% uptime could and should be way more, efflorence could be slightly higher at thok too, set up right after BL it snapshots and sticks with 30% extra haste until moved.

Your wild growths seem to do no healing whatsoever.
He does 3 more wild growths resulting in 500 more ticks, indicates that you are using your sotfs other places.
the highest healing for an aoe situation though is sotf wg rejuv fill wg (when off cd) sotf rejuv rejuvs until wg (when off cd) then rejuvs until sotf wg again, personally I don't like it and rather save the wg for when sotf is up again, as I feel the spell is expensive and half as powerful without sotf.
Also for thok I would prefer tree of life due to the healing there is in rotations, 3 min cd's work perfectly, and you get to time it with nature's vigil.


you also have half the rejuv casts as the other resto druid... 80 casts

3 nature's vigil casts on a fight that is 7.30 min long, could clearly improve a bit here
not blowing it right off the bat would be an idea too, it runs of just as you are about to peak in healing

also unless there is a disaster going on, genesis seems a bit well uhhm waste of gcd + mana.

well looking at the bloom he cast it less than you with only a 15% healing loss, your's did 50% overhealing too, so you were using the bloom at the wrong moments.

The tranq is an obvious one, but yeah that is not your fault, but if you aren't told to use it speak with the officer that are in charge of it, if he doesn't tell you to keep it for safety measures (which in the thok shouldn't be needed as .... there is no unexpected damage outside of the screech phases) you should discuss it.

the difference between ysera's gift is quite surprising though neither of you have very high overheal yet his heals for 1 mill, not your fault yet again, but still.

Also 12 vs 15 swiftmends with a 15 sec cd both of you are on the far low side of the swiftmends, at least 2.5 times pr minute, and this is barely acceptable, you are both at or below 2 times pr minute, you could even cast sotf wg then another wg when it is off cd and then get off the next as a sotf wg and still have a higher SM use. (This also seems to severly hurt both of your harmony uptimes which is at 70-77%, so you are basically nerfing yourself by 30% of your mastery bonus.)

oh and I just spent time analyzing a fight where you die 80% into it.... FUCK, while your harmony uptimes are not so horrible in that case it can still improve.

edit: why the fuck would anyone use nourish at this point of the expansion, it's too weak.

compared to a rejuv it is shit, if you cant continously spam rejuv just waiting for mana in 0.7 sec after the rejuv is better than casting a nourish

checking the logs again instead, you are 40 casts below on rejuv on the 1st wipe.



what differs you from the other druid is just rejuvs, where you cast them and how often, he is somewhat decent at it, while you are casting too few, and not very good placement at that either.
Though don't take him as an example as he still has some basic flaws too. (like swiftmends and lifeblooms) he also has an harmony issue which you don't.


- - - Updated - - -

I think I gave you quite a few more pointers than just heal more. I hadn't seen that you were using Genesis so much on Thok, that can explain a bit why your Rejuv healing is so low.

Not using SotF on WG at all, and casting Genesis 16 times in the Thok fight, are no small mistakes, but big no-gos that gimp your healing output. It seems you're not as good as you think and need to learn (or re-learn) a few basics for druid healing. Not using Barkskin at all on Thok also shows you're not using the full potential of your class. Your Might of Ursok use was completely wasted. There is definitely a lot of room to improve, even though that won't put you on top of the healing meters.

not using barkskin at a farm fight though.... not very big.

the basics are the biggest mistakes here, and the other resto druid has some of the same issue, slightly better but still.

[Rowin]

To point out some stuff for the thok fight

oh and I just spent time analyzing a fight where you die 80% into it.

I got fixated 2x and there was no place left to run. So it's back to working on my basics for me. I'll be sure to use Genesis minimally for sure, not using WG on cd, but saving it for Sw timing it right for SOTF. A few more addons or WA's should help me as well.

I appreciate everyones comments...and I am worth helping - so ty

[TEHPALLYTANK]

You probably should just take Genesis off your bars to break the habit of using it.

[Rowin]

I can see why the other rdruid "doesn't have time to help" this guy...

that was just rude and mean. Im trying to be better and unlike you, am not perfect and clearly know there's an issue