WoD Equinox (lvl 100 talent)

[Deleted]

Equinox: Lunar and Solar Eclipse now last until the other is triggered, instead of ending at 0 Balance Power.

Euphoria: While not in an Eclipse state, your Wrath, Starfire, and Starsurge spells generate double the normal amount of Solar or Lunar energy.
Nature's Grace: When you reach a Solar or Lunar Eclipse, you instantly restore 50% of your total mana, and gain 15% haste for 15 sec.

There goes the tooltips. When thinking about how would talents play out I just noticed a possible conflict between our passives and Equinox. If we progress with our rotation it speeds up a little when not in Eclipse. But if we took Equinox, it makes us always have Eclipse up, making Euphoria useless and increasing the time between Eclipse procs. Good thing we have "power up" all the time, but Nature's Grace will be a little less frequent. We are nerfing our own ability in a way. What do you think?

[Cyous]

Hamlet, Dolson, and myself... We've been talking about how to improve Equinox. Still debating it, but yeah...we're concerned too.

[lappee]

Hamlet, Dolson, and myself... We've been talking about how to improve Equinox. Still debating it, but yeah...we're concerned too.

Best way is to remove one of the three (Equinox, NG or Euphoria)

I'm all the way in for removing Equinox, never liked the idea

[Cyous]

Best way is to remove one of the three (Equinox, NG or Euphoria)

I'm all the way in for removing Equinox, never liked the idea

Hamlet are I are discussing ways to replace/change Nature's Grace. Equinox as a concept is fine, it just isn't enough when it comes to the current NG mechanic (making NG permanent, if you select Equinox, is a possibility.) There's a lot you can do to help Equinox, but Euphoria doesn't seem like the right spell to knock on. Nature's Grace is iconic, but it provides some issues. Removing outright might not be the best option, but you need a reason to cycle Eclipse (NG is the reason.) Starfall could be the "replacement reason."

One of the "changes" I thought of was to make an exclusive NG to each Eclipse:
- NG (Lunar) -- Increase the casting speed of Starfire and Starsurge by 15% while in Lunar Eclipse. Lasts until you leave Lunar Eclipse.
- NG (Solar) -- Increase the casting speed of Wrath and Starsurge by 15% while in Solar Eclipse. Lasts until you leave Solar Eclipse.
- NG (CA) -- Increase the casting speed of Starfire, Wrath, and Starsurge by 15%.

^ this idea has synergy with the Celestial Alignment glyph (just occurred to me).

Then it makes Euphoria extra special because we cannot power through non-Eclipse with NG. Then in makes the current Equinox better, but it also promotes that awful/mindless DOT refreshing playstyle. (I need a way to effectively kill that from Equinox--though, it's not really detrimental to the talent...it's just my opinion.)

[Magpai]

The obvious solution is to make Euphoria work with your energy bar rather than a "in eclipse or not in eclipse flag". When you pass the midway point you gain euphoria, problem solved.

[Cyous]

The obvious solution is to make Euphoria work with your energy bar rather than a "in eclipse or not in eclipse flag". When you pass the midway point you gain euphoria, problem solved.

You'd need these then things:
EB = EuphoriaBoolean (1 = true, 0 = false)
EP = Eclipse Power (num)
LE = Last Eclipse (1=Lunar, 2=Solar)
if EP >= 0 and EP > -100 and LE==1 then EB = 1
if EP <= 0 and EP > 100 and LE==2 then EB = 2
if EP == -100 then LE = 1
if EP == 100 then LE = 2

My handholder would be so confusing to use.

[lappee]

Hamlet are I are discussing ways to replace/change Nature's Grace. Equinox as a concept is fine, it just isn't enough when it comes to the current NG mechanic (making NG permanent, if you select Equinox, is a possibility.) There's a lot you can do to help Equinox, but Euphoria doesn't seem like the right spell to knock on. Nature's Grace is iconic, but it provides some issues. Removing outright might not be the best option, but you need a reason to cycle Eclipse (NG is the reason.) Starfall could be the "replacement reason."

One of the "changes" I thought of was to make an exclusive NG to each Eclipse:
- NG (Lunar) -- Increase the casting speed of Starfire and Starsurge by 15% while in Lunar Eclipse. Lasts until you leave Lunar Eclipse.
- NG (Solar) -- Increase the casting speed of Wrath and Starsurge by 15% while in Solar Eclipse. Lasts until you leave Solar Eclipse.
- NG (CA) -- Increase the casting speed of Starfire, Wrath, and Starsurge by 15%.

^ this idea has synergy with the Celestial Alignment glyph (just occurred to me).

Then it makes Euphoria extra special because we cannot power through non-Eclipse with NG. Then in makes the current Equinox better, but it also promotes that awful/mindless DOT refreshing playstyle. (I need a way to effectively kill that from Equinox--though, it's not really detrimental to the talent...it's just my opinion.)

Making Equinox stronger than it currently is on paper is problematic. Sunfall and insect swarm will need buffs to be on par for pve dps and that affects pvp, like having too strong star-/sunfalls can be a problem.

Also changing NG like that makes haste even worse than it currently is, specially with equinox.

[Cyous]

Making Equinox stronger than it currently is on paper is problematic. Sunfall and insect swarm will need buffs to be on par for pve dps and that affects pvp, like having too strong star-/sunfalls can be a problem.

Also changing NG like that makes haste even worse than it currently is, specially with equinox.

To be fair, Equinox won't need to be on par with Sunfall and Insect Swarm. It can be the "rule-breaker" talent. (Counteracting the downsides of Nature's Grace. Such as a Perma-NG.) Sure, it won't be the "pinup girl" like Incarnation was, but this goes beyond PVE balance. (I'm fairly sure PvP'ers wouldn't mind choosing between perma-NG and Sunfall if the pros/cons are significant.

Something like this set of changes/ideas:
- Nature's Grace lasts until Eclipse ends. (yes, this is a nerf overall)
- Equinox says as is.
- Increase MF/SnF damage by ~10% to counteract the NG change.

(Just throwing ideas at you. Second opinions help.)

[Thelxi]

I will be loving every second of equinox on my balance druid. I don't give 2 shits if the other 2 are a 5% dps increase, I'll stick with equinox. I've been asking for a balance bar change like equinox since cata, and it should become baseline eventually.

[lappee]

To be fair, Equinox won't need to be on par with Sunfall and Insect Swarm. It can be the "rule-breaker" talent. (Counteracting the downsides of Nature's Grace. Such as a Perma-NG.) Sure, it won't be the "pinup girl" like Incarnation was, but this goes beyond PVE balance. (I'm fairly sure PvP'ers wouldn't mind choosing between perma-NG and Sunfall if the pros/cons are significant.

Something like this set of changes/ideas:
- Nature's Grace lasts until Eclipse ends. (yes, this is a nerf overall)
- Equinox says as is.
- Increase MF/SnF damage by ~10% to counteract the NG change.

(Just throwing ideas at you. Second opinions help.)

Sunfall / insect swarm need to be on par with equinox in single target (if not couple % higher), otherwise it'll be just like incarnation.
Those changes will just make Equinox stronger rather than the opposite -> buffs to the two other talents -> pvp might get messy with star/sunfalls

Stat balance will need to be thought too, as blizzard stated that they'd like every stat to be on par with each other for pve dps (obviously this aint happening for pvp due to crit differences) and that NG change + losing major haste breakpoints makes haste weaker.

[Vanos27]

Lower our cast times and adjust dot ticks to compensate for NG's 15% haste and change NG to give us 15% of one of the new tertiary stats maybe?

I've never liked a situation where I need to multi-dot some mobs and my NG is either going to be running out soon or has run out causing me to drudge through to the next eclipse.

Maybe it's a bad idea but I'd just like to stop having to rely on NG uptime. It's not a complex mechanic that adds fun (for me anyway) and just makes some situations tedious.

[Cyous]

Sunfall / insect swarm need to be on par with equinox in single target (if not couple % higher), otherwise it'll be just like incarnation.
Those changes will just make Equinox stronger rather than the opposite -> buffs to the two other talents -> pvp might get messy with star/sunfalls

Stat balance will need to be thought too, as blizzard stated that they'd like every stat to be on par with each other for pve dps (obviously this aint happening for pvp due to crit differences) and that NG change + losing major haste breakpoints makes haste weaker.

Plus we need to factor shooting stars proc rates. And I've suggested that Mastery play a role in Shooting Stars.

[Aboubacar]

Pretty sure this is just the Timmy Tom casual kid passive talent like passive SR for ferals. It seems like it could improve balance aoe but not by very much, I'd like to see a talent more geared toward aoe damage not some garbage that breaks the Eclipse Bar mechanic just so little Timmy Tom can learn the spec 30 minutes faster.

Bad talent back to the drawing board blizz

[lappee]

Plus we need to factor shooting stars proc rates. And I've suggested that Mastery play a role in Shooting Stars.

Which makes mastery more powerful (Equinox already does that) which in terms makes haste weaker in comparison

[Aboubacar]

btw we dont need 2 passives in this row. Add another spell plz and thnx

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Plus we need to factor shooting stars proc rates. And I've suggested that Mastery play a role in Shooting Stars.

Shooting stars needs to happen less not more. And be more powerful/contribute more to quick cycles. They added +energy gen for it already, DoC to reset its CD. I don't want to play a spammy braindead class again in WoD

-and SS not scale with gear half the reason this class is annoying to play at super high and super low gear levels.

[huth]

Lower our cast times and adjust dot ticks to compensate for NG's 15% haste and change NG to give us 15% of one of the new tertiary stats maybe?

I'm don't think i'd really like NG giving lifeleech or making my gear less suspectible to durability loss.



I'm not sure what you guys are trying to fix here, though. There's not really anything mechanically wrong with Equinox, and balancing simply isn't an issue at this point of development.

[Cyous]

Which makes mastery more powerful (Equinox already does that) which in terms makes haste weaker in comparison

If Shooting Stars scaled with Mastery -> [Base(8%)] + MasteryBase(8%/2) + MasteryRating(1%=250 in WOD), then you greatly nerf Starsurge procs. (You'd remove the multi-dot penalty as well.) Then if you reduce the cooldown on Starsurge from 15sec down to 10sec, you help lower gear levels by way of increasing the frequency of the casts. Eventually, you'll get to a Mastery rating that will outpace the cooldown on Starsurge. Haste will still be valuable for our DOTs and increasing our APM. Crit will still have the DOT extensions and be part of Shooting Stars.

The Shooting Stars change would directly nerf Crit. It wouldn't effect Haste too much. Mastery would be valuable to Equinox more-so than Insect Swarm (probably not Sunfall), and in turn, this system would bond Mastery with Haste and Crit.

Higher proc rate = more useful Crit
more crit = need for more Mastery
Haste...would still need revisions.

Either way, that's one way to nerf SS with making it awful for low levels, and mindless at "last tier" levels.

(Haste could always buff NG -> "Nature's Grace granting {[Base(8%) + [HasteRating(1%=125)]}% Haste while in an Eclipse state.") (and yes, Haste is basically double-dipping.)

[lappee]

The system would bond mastery haste and crit on either with or without Equinox, and thats a huge problem in my eyes (as long as blizzard still wants to make the 3 stats equal, remove that philosophy and its fine)

Shooting stars could just use a cd of some sort and with the cd we could introduce stacking system up to 2.

[Aboubacar]

Haste already contributes to shootings stars and wont be bad at all if our dots are strong enough. Haste basically = +dot damage in WoD with the way the partial ticks work. I think it would be find.

Problem is actually readiness and multistrike but those arent finished yet

[Cyous]

The system would bond mastery haste and crit on either with or without Equinox, and thats a huge problem in my eyes (as long as blizzard still wants to make the 3 stats equal, remove that philosophy and its fine)

Shooting stars could just use a cd of some sort and with the cd we could introduce stacking system up to 2.

How it is a problem if they interact with each other? (Genuinely curious.) I was aiming for a situation like Ferals (the stats interact nicely, essentially "buffing" each other.)

Haste already contributes to shootings stars and wont be bad at all if our dots are strong enough. Haste basically = +dot damage in WoD with the way the partial ticks work. I think it would be find.

Problem is actually readiness and multistrike but those arent finished yet

Readiness really doesn't belong in our DPS toolkit (unless you want it to effect talents.) And I can't see Blizzard making Readiness purely a utility stat. It's weird.

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Stacking SS procs would be fine even if the proc-rate is low enough. The issue would become "when do you expect 2 procs in 2sec" using a various RNG-based ratios. (I've modeled this Mastery=SS Proc Rate thing in the past, that's why I'm hammering it.)