550 ilvl still not enough for N Garrosh? *rant*

[Louis CK]

I'm locked to Paragons, I just want to kill Garrosh. Why isn't 550 ilvl enough? I understand having the legendary cloak is a very healthy dps increase but c'mon. It is manageable without it. I can still do 200k dps without it, oh and I have to link my achievement too? Give me a break. I get you don't want to sit there and wipe x number of times, I just want my kill for the week.

"LFM N GARROSH KILL 560+ ilvl"
"LFM N GARROSH KILL PST ACHIEVE 550+ LEGENDARY CLOAK REQUIRED"

Hey guys, don't quit playing WoW when you are in the middle of your legendary quest line. The end expansion pugs will be a pain in the ass to get into because you *NEED* it.

*yes I have a guild, we only raid 2 nights a week, 4-5 hours max between the 2 days, killed siegecrafter and called it*

I'M CRY IF I DON'T GET MY WOLF MOUNT.

I'm still in the process of filling the roster for our guild. We just started up a couple weeks ago, and we clear Normal, but we're still 4 people short that I have to pug each week. Occasionally I get lucky and someone from my friend's list joins who I know, but much of the time we're stuck using OQ or Openraid.

That said, in my experience, 95% of the WoW population's DPS does dps befitting someone 20 ilvl below what it should be. Meaning, someone with 550 ilvl, I assume they're going to DPS like I did when I was 525-530, and most of the time this assumption holds true. Therefore, when I pug for our Normal runs, and especially Garrosh, if you're under 560 I probably won't choose you unless you make a good case as to why I can trust you to play your class properly.

Hell, I can't even get decent DPS out of 565+ pugs. When I get 565+ shamans, warlocks and mages who can't even touch 200k on Garrosh AoE you really can't expect me to just pick up every random person I see with a 550 ilvl.

Can Garrosh be done with 550 DPS? Absolutely. It can be done with much lower ilvl DPS than that. The problem isn't want CAN be done, rather it's with what players can do. And most players can't play properly to match their ilvl.

So yeah, if I'm using OQ and you're 550, there's no way I'm inviting you. You're a stranger, and 95% of the strangers I've ever played with can't play for shit, and I can't gamble my raid group's time inviting every mediocre ilvl character on my OQ list to "try them out". With that said, I also look in Openraid at the same time, and I'm occasionally asked by lower ilvl toons to join, and if they can give me any indication that they can play properly, they get the spot.

Now, tanks and healers are a different story. It doesn't take as much ilvl to compensate for tanks and heals in Normal as it does for DPS. So I've taken tanks as low as 528 (and cleared most just fine) and usually healers in the 540's. (Hell, I was 540 when I started healing Normal).


So yeah, the issue (for me at least) is not whether or not it can be cleared in 550 or below (half the people I got were in the 540's when we started raiding together and clearing just fine), but rather the complete and utter lack of knowledge that much of the playerbase has on how to play effectively on a level befitting their ilvl.

[dusselldorf]

Assigning problems to specific individuals and not to the system as a whole is a hallmark of the selfish, "me me me" mentality. Gear drops are completely out of my control. There is no reason I should suffer. Besides, even with 550 equipped, I do more than enough dps because I know my class and have raided on it at a cutting edge level which is more than I can say for the chuckles who deny me entrance due to an arbitrary number.

Going for ironic post of the year?

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Yeah you totally need to be 30 ilvls above something to pug it. People like you are why this thread even exists

If it makes you feel any better, I wouldn't invite you to a raid of mine even if you had 570 gear because I find your attitude self centered, narcissistic, and toxic.

[MoanaLisa]

This is always going to be the problem with flex raiding and it won't be limited to end-of-expansion stuff. Flex groups are at the mercy of those who start the group. I do think that if the OP is really all that unhappy about this--which seems to be true--then he should carefully craft a small ad for a flex group with less in the way of gear requirements and make his own path.

At some point it would likely behoove Blizzard to think about the things they can do to fix Raid Finder instead of trying to marginalize it and making it irrelevant since this sort of thing is never ever going to go away.

Or perhaps Blizzard is no longer really all that interested in having six-to-eight million people hanging around any longer.

Anyway, I'd try to make up my own group first although I've tried this a couple of times and can't say that it's very rewarding, fun or even works very well. Flex is good for the game but it's not the be-all solution for getting people into a raid.

[Pariah]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Garrosh normal was 5 man'd in February. Saying it can probably be 3-5 man'd is... an accurate statement since it has already happened.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6fTg4bGCYE

[Pennoyer]

I wonder how many of the people complaining here would actually join (and stay to learn/tech) a group full of players with the same ilvl or lower than them.

[Kalorna]

This sort of thing bugs me so much. I spent most of yesterday trying to find a SoO pug with a few heroics on my shaman alt (560, only neck/rings/chest would be upgrades from normal, have cloak etc) and despite having multiple normal mode clears on that character as well as 14/14h on my main I got told I wasn't geared enough for a full normal run with Immersius heroic. I'd just put it down to a single crackpot leader but it happened with a few groups =/

I feel for you OP, its a nightmare trying to get pugs even when you *have* the gear/xp and half the time the raid leader has below the gear they ask of from others and hasn't actually completed the encounters before.

If only I could actually be bothered to lead my own groups >_>

[DTFlock]

people should have 560 ilvl by now this late in the expansion if they actually really raid

550 is a ideal ilvl but its there group, you can complain all you want it won't change anything

[Lumineus]

Exactly. I killed Garrosh in a 25 man guild on October 10th with a 533 ilevel - as a tank, mind you. I have a significantly larger ilevel at this point (550 as Prot, 565 as DPS; always fun when your OS is more geared than your MS), the legendary items, and yet I still won't be taken to a heroic run or even a normal Garrosh.

At 565 I doubt they're rejecting you for your avg ilvl. More like the "Oh you're melee? GTFO" attitude that pervades raiding in general.

[Honkeymagoo]

I think it's pretty damn frustrating how ilvl>all for almost everyone. I recently returned to the game and can't even find a guild to clear normal with as a 543 disc priest. I'm not a bad player either, these were my logs before I quit http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/fizzcrank/kebertxela/. I should have my legendary cloak next week, but after searching for a guild for over a month and joining countless failed pugs, I'm burnt out. I don't play to endlessly beg for scraps from people with more gear that I outperform.

I blame lfr and flex gear. This creates multiple gear thresholds for groups to use as an entry level requirement. The problem is each one takes weeks or even months to reach, increasing the amount of work and time it takes to even be considered by the majority of the playerbase exponentially. I really want to do end boss heroics, but unless I get a group of strangers to boost my ilvl, I just don't see that happening in the next few months. I've already unsubbed, I just didn't realize it'd be this bad starting behind everyone else.

[Deleted]

Garrosh normal was 5 man'd in February. Saying it can probably be 3-5 man'd is... an accurate statement since it has already happened.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6fTg4bGCYE

I can see Garrosh being easily 3 mannable by a strong tank, disc priest and good dps tbh.
The only issue would be the mind controls but that is very easy to deal with in normal. A paladin tank could bring out both MCs in 1 global.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I can see Garrosh being easily 3 mannable by a strong tank, disc priest and good dps tbh.
The only issue would be the mind controls but that is very easy to deal with in normal. A paladin tank could bring out both MCs in 1 global.

Well now that you've said it we need some people to do it. Make it a sort of "How few people can you kill 10man Garrosh with while he is still current?" challenge!

[Spotnick]

This tells you how sick this game is right now.

Apparently there are way too many people without friends and relying way too much on pick up groups and their sad requirements.

Last time I pugged was in WOTLK I think, I helped in pugs but friends asked me to go help them, I really don't see why people are being masochists like that.. join a guild, join a better guild, make contact with people from other guilds, join a GDKP run from top guild on server.. anything, but avoid pugs at all costs.

You'd be surprised how many time I checked trade pug spammers and see they don't even have the ilvl or achievement they are asking for.

[Lumineus]

I think busting out one of the last phase MCs solo with two of them trying to cast Touch on you would be a pretty tall order without some serious Vengeance, especially with only a max of three attackers feeding you AS procs. Maybe if you left a bunch of WBs from phase one up the whole fight... it could work...

[Deleted]

Well now that you've said it we need some people to do it. Make it a sort of "How few people can you kill 10man Garrosh with while he is still current?" challenge!

I dont see you doing it with less than 3 due to the MC. But 3 shouldnt bee too difficult with the right classes.

[Normie]

Or perhaps Blizzard is no longer really all that interested in having six-to-eight million people hanging around any longer.

By Q3 this is a 4 million player game so, that problem is solved.

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I think it's pretty damn frustrating how ilvl>all for almost everyone. I recently returned to the game and can't even find a guild to clear normal with as a 543 disc priest. I'm not a bad player either, these were my logs before I quit http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/fizzcrank/kebertxela/. I should have my legendary cloak next week, but after searching for a guild for over a month and joining countless failed pugs, I'm burnt out. I don't play to endlessly beg for scraps from people with more gear that I outperform.

I can't imagine how you could be one week from a legendary cloak and not be at least ilevel 550.

How is that possible? The game pretty much throws the gear at you. Do you have a 471 weapon or something?

Also that shitty attitude, "begging for scraps from people with more gear that I outperform," yeah, I see why you play the game solo.

[Honkeymagoo]

I can't imagine how you could be one week from a legendary cloak and not be at least ilevel 550.

How is that possible? The game pretty much throws the gear at you. Do you have a 471 weapon or something?

Also that shitty attitude, "begging for scraps from people with more gear that I outperform," yeah, I see why you play the game solo.

Well I'm full 528-553 gear, just averages to 543. I've run everything I can find a pug for up to this point each week and that's about all I can do I think.

About the shitty attitude part, yea I guess you're right. I feel pretty shitty about not being even considered because of my gear. I'm on a relatively low pop server and guilds here are either full of new raiders doing 100k dps that wipe for 2 1/2 hours on immersius (the guild I recently joined) or require you to be 560+ with cloak. I've talked to people trying to convince them that I could perform well for my ilvl and my previous experience as a heroic raider counts for more than a little gear, one recruiter literally called me irrelevant. It's frustrating. I probably need to transfer to a high pop realm to be given a chance as xrealm stuff is pretty unforgiving.

As far as the begging for scraps part. I never called people shitters or bads and try to have pleasant interactions with everyone I talk to in game. I'm just very confident in my ability to perform. I know I can beat most players despite them outgearing me, up to a certain point obviously. When these same people tell me no because of my ilvl over and over it's kind of defeating. When I whisper people back to explain I'm experienced, know my spec very well, have done it before, etc. it feels like I'm making up excuses and begging. You get taken as a warm body every once in a while with no expectations because no one else was on. Even still that same group that actually took you disbands after one wipe sometimes.

I'll get past this point eventually if I keep pugging the first few bosses in normal mode, but until then the game isn't challenging or all that fun for me. I'm already at the point of being burnt out. It's hard to find the motivation to keep on trying to convince people to give me a shot. If you have an alt group or something that would be willing to give a 543 disc priest a chance though I'd take you up on it to put my money where my mouth is. I'm a really down to earth guy and a reliable raider.

[Saphyron]

I wonder how many of the people complaining here would actually join (and stay to learn/tech) a group full of players with the same ilvl or lower than them.

I teach tactics to new player each week and with 3-4 hours of raiding we usually get past spoils with a group of ilvl 540+

[kamuimac]

About the shitty attitude part, yea I guess you're right. I feel pretty shitty about not being even considered because of my gear. I'm on a relatively low pop server and guilds here are either full of new raiders doing 100k dps that wipe for 2 1/2 hours on immersius (the guild I recently joined) or require you to be 560+ with cloak. I've talked to people trying to convince them that I could perform well for my ilvl and my previous experience as a heroic raider counts for more than a little gear, one recruiter literally called me irrelevant. It's frustrating. I probably need to transfer to a high pop realm to be given a chance as xrealm stuff is pretty unforgiving.
.

that problem is not existent anymore since SoO normal is cross real atm so server is not limiting you anymore.

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I'll get past this point eventually if I keep pugging the first few bosses in normal mode, but until then the game isn't challenging or all that fun for me. I'm already at the point of being burnt out. It's hard to find the motivation to keep on trying to convince people to give me a shot. If you have an alt group or something that would be willing to give a 543 disc priest a chance though I'd take you up on it to put my money where my mouth is. I'm a really down to earth guy and a reliable raider.

and this is the attitude i will never ever understan - u took a break from game u come back and expect people who spend very often few weeks/months to clear normal SoO to just bring u in and carry u cause "your such an amazing player" - u took a break well suffer the consequences of it - people like u are actually cancer to recruitment on hc raiding lv cause u join in u get carried and then when u get a bit gear and hit progress boses - u just say to yourself "ah screw it i cba with it ill take next 2-3 months break and then come back and apply to next guild to carry u through another couple of bosses -_-

[Normie]

Well I'm full 528-553 gear, just averages to 543. I've run everything I can find a pug for up to this point each week and that's about all I can do I think.

About the shitty attitude part, yea I guess you're right. I feel pretty shitty about not being even considered because of my gear. I'm on a relatively low pop server and guilds here are either full of new raiders doing 100k dps that wipe for 2 1/2 hours on immersius (the guild I recently joined) or require you to be 560+ with cloak. I've talked to people trying to convince them that I could perform well for my ilvl and my previous experience as a heroic raider counts for more than a little gear, one recruiter literally called me irrelevant. It's frustrating. I probably need to transfer to a high pop realm to be given a chance as xrealm stuff is pretty unforgiving.

As far as the begging for scraps part. I never called people shitters or bads and try to have pleasant interactions with everyone I talk to in game. I'm just very confident in my ability to perform. I know I can beat most players despite them outgearing me, up to a certain point obviously. When these same people tell me no because of my ilvl over and over it's kind of defeating. When I whisper people back to explain I'm experienced, know my spec very well, have done it before, etc. it feels like I'm making up excuses and begging. You get taken as a warm body every once in a while with no expectations because no one else was on. Even still that same group that actually took you disbands after one wipe sometimes.

I'll get past this point eventually if I keep pugging the first few bosses in normal mode, but until then the game isn't challenging or all that fun for me. I'm already at the point of being burnt out. It's hard to find the motivation to keep on trying to convince people to give me a shot. If you have an alt group or something that would be willing to give a 543 disc priest a chance though I'd take you up on it to put my money where my mouth is. I'm a really down to earth guy and a reliable raider.

Just using the word "shitters" at any point for any reason, unless you were referring to your aunts' outhouses, makes you someone I would blacklist permanently. So why not just remove that from the vocabulary you use to discuss players.

Celestials will throw 550 and upgradable normal gear at you every week. You have readily available and now cheap crafted belts and pants. There is upgradable timeless gear. YOU CAN QUEUE FOR FLEX 1 (and 2 and 3 and 4) WHENEVER YOU WANT in the "other raids" tool. In the 6-8 weeks or so it has taken you to get your almost-cloak (assuming you've been at it full-time) you will be 550+ if you have worked at it even a little bit.

At least in my case, where I have never set foot in an organized raid this expansion, any time I spawn a new legendary cloak, that character is right around 550 or a little higher, even on the characters I don't like to play that much any more.

So, I don't know what your issue is but ....

[Musta Kyy]

These things are probably already said in the thread, but anyway:

Make your own group.

Don't want to make your own group? Well, you are in the 99% now, and guess what, there are people better geared than you in there. So, why should any leader take you when they can get people with curve and 560+?

Get gear or be a leader, and if you decide to make your own group and get whispers from 560+ and 550+ people, are you seriously going to take the lower ilvl people just because you were once in their position? Hell no.

Can't get geared? Then you really are not trying as there are pugs out there that do not require 560+, they just wont be going for Garrosh, also celestials, also crafted (really cheap these days) epics.

Edit: Also 550ilvl prideful gear is just as good for PvE as any upgraded flex piece and getting the 10k conq cap in PvE gear (PvP trinkets are important though) takes only few hours, because you get really low geared opponents with 0% PvP power and your gear works as 530ilvl at arena, which is actually equal to full grievous now.