Did i do something wrong in calling out a raid member?

[Deleted]

Hi

A bit about me first, Im not an officer in my guild but i would hope to see myself as someone whose opinion could be trusted. I have only been raiding since FL but take the game kinda seriously as regard to game knowledge and my own class skill. Im usually a passive guy who sorta just rolls with wipes and progression but lately I have found myself to be a bit more vocal. We are progressing on paragons HC and we havent hit a wall as such but are in the early stages so we are sorting out what works best for us. Starting the pull we lower rikkal and nuke down skeer like most if not all guilds. But what bugs me is that even with this much overgearing sometimes we cant killl it in time. I have been pretty loud this raid talking about how we can make things better and how we can change our fight. But i was looking at the skeer dmg and saw discrepancies between people of the same class, one of our hunters litterally did double the dmg of another. Well i assumed trinkets+crit streak helped so i didnt say anything. I just sat and waited for a bit more to go on.

We are a semi casual guild so i dont expect the super hardcore mentality which i feel like im transitioning into but would like people to put in 100%. So some pulls later a similar thing happens with the hunters again. Different specs i can sorta understand for example im playing sub and our other rogue is playing combat so my burst is gonna be somewhat higher. But at this point we had not killed skeer in a bout 3 pulls so i decided to ask how come said hunter was doing more dmg (all 3 are BM) consistently. The response i got was " good for them." at this point being a bit cranky i kinda got angry and said "why the fuck dont you ask and maybe you could do more". Raid leader told me to calm down so i did and proceeded to vent a little in melee channel.

Now i dont expect everyone to play like method but when someone of my class plays better than me i try to find out how i can do the same and try to emulate it. I feel without competition i become complacent and lazy so i dont improve which is what has happened to me in the past. Is this wrong to expect this sort of behavior in a semi hardcore guild (3d/w) ?

Being a passive person who hates conflict i felt bad and apologized later on but I still dont think my mentality about it is wrong i dunno. If you arent looking to improve yourself as a player i dont see what is the point. Any ideas, suggestions or perhaps a way i could have handled it better.


TLDR Silly wipes, Angry raider calls someone out feels kinda bad about it. Your 2 cents.

[webwierdo]

Any opinion here is meaningless to your specific situation because we can only see your viewpoint. Disregarding that you could be skewing facts intentionally, not to say that you are but its the internet, we are still limited to your vision of what is going on. Either we agree with you because that is the picture you've painted or we disagree with you mainly because we can with no other reason. Not exactly helpful. Internet forums aren't great places to get your opinions validated on semi-personal issues.

[Deleted]

Any opinion here is meaningless to your specific situation because we can only see your viewpoint. Disregarding that you could be skewing facts intentionally, not to say that you are but its the internet, we are still limited to your vision of what is going on. Either we agree with you because that is the picture you've painted or we disagree with you mainly because we can with no other reason. Not exactly helpful. Internet forums aren't great places to get your opinions validated on semi-personal issues.

Fair enough i see what you are saying perhaps i could put more detail in the post in relation to what you have said. In terms of possible skew i can see are mutation and gear difference. All the hunters are similarly geared a few Hc to HC wf differences. I checked they didnt get mutated which can skew the dps which is understandable.

I could have worded the last paragraph slightly better to avoid a bias and leading view. While i agree with you regarding the fact that it is entirely from my view point and nothing to counter argue/balance i still feel people could give a valid opinion/their past experiences.

[Sinndra]

im not gonna get into it with the elitists that will sniff this post out, but on a personal level, if what you say is 100% accurate, then no, you dont need to be "calling others out". lets face it, you are not in a server/world first race at this point. there is more then likely several factors in why a boss isnt going down as fast. im sure you will get the fight down in time. throwing a fit after just 3 pulls is a bit extreme in a semi HC guild. the important part is to realize that you dont get brick walled with your group and it will go down soon. could be an off night for somebody. real life stresses do often carry into games.

now if you guys have been consistently failing at the fight for the exact same reason over and over 20 or 30 times and its blaringly obvious... maybe going to a private channel, or simply informing your raid lead and solve/discuss the issue that way. getting riled up infront of others only leads to more disappointment either to yourself or the raid as a whole because of frustration.

did you do something wrong? not really.

could it have been handled better? i think so.

[blackblade]

Was one hunter consistently ahead? How many attempts did you have?

They may not have been using CD's at the same time, and if the attempts were short, things get skewed on the meters at the end of the fight as people are wiping it up.

[Deleted]

im not gonna get into it with the elitists that will sniff this post out, but on a personal level, if what you say is 100% accurate, then no, you dont need to be "calling others out". lets face it, you are not in a server/world first race at this point. there is more then likely several factors in why a boss isnt going down as fast. im sure you will get the fight down in time. throwing a fit after just 3 pulls is a bit extreme in a semi HC guild. the important part is to realize that you dont get brick walled with your group and it will go down soon. could be an off night for somebody. real life stresses do often carry into games.

now if you guys have been consistently failing at the fight for the exact same reason over and over and its blaringly obvious... maybe going to a private channel, or simply informing your raid lead and solve/discuss the issue that way. getting riled up infront of others only leads to more disappointment either to yourself or the raid as a whole because of frustration.

did you do something wrong? not really.

could it have been handled better? i think so.

Thanks. Looking back i kinda feel it was unnecessary our raid was stressed due to a crappy raid on sunday with it taking almost 2 hours to kill malk. I wouldnt call it a fit per say but yeh im not one to usually bring out the rage banner i suppose i was just angry and this gave me a way to vent. The anger didnt really come until i got the response from the player though which tbh i felt was kinda unacceptable. Isnt a raid meant to work together as a team to constantly improve rather than not care regardless of their stance on raiding hc or 1 day week flexes. I know the boss will die eventually it took like 400 on siege and 300+ on thok im used wiping it comes kinda standard with hc raiders otherwise we all wouldnt do it.

I didnt think of the otherhings you mentioned such as life stress and bad raid days i have had my fair share too i will try and be a bit more considerate next time thanks.

Although 1 thing i will say is that after i mentioned it both players dmg did go up a decent amount maybe a kick up the backside is what some people need.

[vindicatorx]

Hi

A bit about me first, Im not an officer in my guild but ...

That's all you needed to say. Yes, it's not your job to tell him he messed up. There is a proper method in life for giving criticism it's applicable in real life as well. You have several options 1) tell your supervisor (raid leader, officer) behind closed doors that you have concerns with another guy's performance. Bringing up stuff in public as you did makes you look like an asshole who oversteps his position. 2) You can suggest to the guys who suck to talk to the guy who doesn't suck in private. Once again no one likes being made look like an asshat in public. 3) If you go through the proper channels and nothing happens I would suggest looking for a new job or guild.

[Abysal]

1. Calling people out publicly is lame. In my experience, if you talk to someone in private they are usually far more receptive. When you point out someone's shortcomings to an entire group, it automatically makes them defensive.

2. Did the 3 hunters all have the exact same gear/enchants/gems/reforges? It's possible the superior hunter had a better trinket or weapon, you can't just compare ilvl you have to compare items. The fact that they were the same spec doesn't mean that their dmg should be the same. You didn't give us enough information to determine what the hunter you called out was doing wrong if anything. You just said he did less then a different hunter.

[oplawlz]

There is a proper method in life for giving criticism it's applicable in real life as well. You have several options 1) tell your supervisor (raid leader, officer) behind closed doors that you have concerns with another guy's performance. Bringing up stuff in public as you did makes you look like an asshole who oversteps his position. 2) You can suggest to the guys who suck to talk to the guy who doesn't suck in private. Once again no one likes being made look like an asshat in public. 3) If you go through the proper channels and nothing happens I would suggest looking for a new job or guild.

This pretty much sums it up. The fact that you feel remorse makes me think you're probably not an asshat, and thus do not want to look like one.

[Deleted]

Was one hunter consistently ahead? How many attempts did you have?

They may not have been using CD's at the same time, and if the attempts were short, things get skewed on the meters at the end of the fight as people are wiping it up.

Yes 1 hunter was consistently ahead tonight, sadly i cant check how many attempts we had since logs arent up but somewhere between 8-10. I get like maybe 1 of them could be holding stampede for korven killing but 10mill difference cant be caused by the time it takes to wipe. Having checked past weeks logs the difference has been smaller but the higher hunter tonight hasnt been using stampede.

[Nirty999]

Yea doing that is a bit rude (especially in a non-hardcore guild) .. what you should do is whisper him or an officer.. if that doesnt help then you should find a better guild.
Btw a top 1000+ guild isn't really "semi-hardcore" and it means there are obviously people not playing at their best..

[Deleted]

Thanks for the opinions guys im not one to usually make conflict and be the so called "dick" of the guild so didnt really know how to handle it afterwards looking back on it. Im intensionally not giving names/armorys logs to try and have some anonymity which i suppose wouldnt be too hard to uncover looking at my past posts bla blah but still i would feel even worse if it kinda escalated more.

In the future i will prob just whisper the person about it. I guess in the heat of the moment i chose the wrong thing to do. This was prob led into of past times i have /w about performance and hasnt really made a difference or i felt it was possibly too light hearted but i get it isnt cool and i prob shouldnt impose my own ideals on others.

Thanks for the help people really appreciate it.

[Stormspellz]

sounds more like a case of- its not what you said but how you said it.

[nowish]

I would probably have reacted the same way as you tbh. You tried to help the raid improve for the encounter, and what you got back from that guy/girl was just a stupid arrogant respons... I would have kicked that person from the raid. Doesnt matter if u only raid 1 hour each week, if some people are putting in effort to do their best, why the fuck cant you rely on others to do the same without getting some stupid talkbacks?

Granted I dont know exactly how the conversation went down, the tone of your voices etc.. but I believe u did nothing wrong. Might be because Im an asshat myself tho.

[kamuimac]

the difference may come from the sheer fact that its not those 2 hunters are bad - it might be that this 1 hunter is jsut so much more better then they are - it happens in most of guilds that some people are usually ahead of others skillwise - but sometimes they dont want anything more then spending time in game with friends and thats hwy they dont apply to even better guilds - maybe hes just better at opening burst , maybe hes using macros for that burst while others are not its hard to guess without logs.

and i agree with others - you are not officer its not your job to publicly call it out - if u really care that much maybe u should apply to officer position but unless u do it u shouldnt do stuff like this unless your raid is doing public brain storm in form of "lets all think what we can do to improve, does anyone have any suggestions ? " , else u should never publicly bash others no matter how obvious their mistakes are if ur raiding in more casual but still serious enviroment (and ye being on hc paragons now is not even close to being hardcore -_-)

[Pandapuncher]

Any opinion here is meaningless to your specific situation because we can only see your viewpoint. Disregarding that you could be skewing facts intentionally, not to say that you are but its the internet, we are still limited to your vision of what is going on. Either we agree with you because that is the picture you've painted or we disagree with you mainly because we can with no other reason. Not exactly helpful. Internet forums aren't great places to get your opinions validated on semi-personal issues.

Thanks Sigmund for your insight. Anyway, yeah things can get very fustrating. Ya, ya blew up a bit there, but "good for them" is also asinine. You should always try to do your best for your team.

Only difference between hardcore and semi-hardcore is the time commitment

To me it's always been Casual>Semi harcore>hardcore

Casuals and semi's both give in the same time, but one is focused on progression

[Deleted]

One thing to consider is that if you are taking pet damage and with hunters stampede damage into account. If you are only checking the damage from the actual hunters it could be telling a false story.

You do not happen to have any logs or?

[Deleted]

I have never hardcore raided before although many players that used to be in the guild have been past Hardcore raiders so we have always had an air of Hardcore about us. I feel like i could be in a hc guild just the time constraints are a bit inconvenient and i like LoL too much i think to give it up. Yeh being on paragons now is kinda lame. We killed thok in early Jan but because we had to rebuild the guild basically 3 times since then its a bit slow.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing to consider is that if you are taking pet damage and with hunters stampede damage into account. If you are only checking the damage from the actual hunters it could be telling a false story.

You do not happen to have any logs or?

I have looked and i dont think they have been uploaded. However checking past logs i can see the hunter with higher dps usually is still closely behind even if they dont use stampede when the other hunter does.

[Palinn]

Sounds to me like two things happened.. #1) You're not an officer and corrected someone in vent. This can be okay depending on your guild. (seems like it is in your guild, too, since nobody corrected you for doing it) 2) You hollered at someone in vent in a purely negative fashion. You got scolded by your raid leader/GM for doing that.

Take from it what you will.

[Deleted]

Sounds to me like two things happened.. #1) You're not an officer and corrected someone in vent. This can be okay depending on your guild. (seems like it is in your guild, too, since nobody corrected you for doing it) 2) You hollered at someone in vent in a purely negative fashion. You got scolded by your raid leader/GM for doing that.

Take from it what you will.

Well no one said anything like "oh its not your job" or anything along that line so i assume the intention was ok just the rest of it was a bit out of hand. I was told to just calm down but the RL did say the something synonymous to what i said after though. I was just a bit confused when one part of me said it seemed like the correct thing but the coward in me felt bad.