Remove LFR completely?

[Delaios]

I would rather have them make HC Dungeons drop better gear than LFR and also implent new 5mans with each raid patch that has up to date gear

If they did this i wouldnt complain anymore at least.

Having heroics slightly below RF would be acceptable for me, along with new 5 mans each tier. I don't have any problems with LFR existing as long as there aren't any upgrades in it when compared to a previous tier's normal (heroic in WoD) mode gear. And as long as it's not the only PvE catch-up mechanic. It's got far too long queue and clear times to be a good catch-up mechanic. The Devs mentioned LFR being a quick 45-60 minute thing, which is a far stretch from reality and (heroic) dungeons served that role in Wrath and Cata just fine. LFR would be the option for when you have plenty of gametime available.

[Deleted]

It's current state kinda sucks, but I think that the WoD one will be good

[emni]

What kind of simcraft did you see?

I use Rawr, been using it for years, but Mr Robot gave me the same result when I double-checked. Not sure I'd trust these result as it's the only tool that seems to say otherwise.

[Amerissis]

Why progression? because it's fun. Every week going a little further. That's like a good reason to keep on going week after week don't you think so.

No, I don't. I hate trying to kill bosses 10-20 times, failing and then finally killing it, just to repeat the process on the next boss. I want to go in, kill a boss and move to the next. I do that 5-10 times max and then I never set foot in that raid again. I've never understood the mindset of raiders who like to walk head first into walls for weeks, not even when I actually did it myself. I'm sure I'm not a special snowflake, there are thousands upon thousands of people who think FAILING to kill a boss is not fun at all.

This idea that progression only belong to normal or heroic, LFR is a clean everything day one it's available is a concept that has been implanted artificially in the head of player, but it's wrong. Even casual raider like progression. They like to progress their character as much as they like to progress boss kill and story.

No, you think they do. Progression is killing the first boss, then the second, then the third. It doesn't have to involve FAILING to kill the boss 10-20 times before you can move on to the next. That's a concept that has been implanted artificially in the head of a player, but it's wrong. Some people love that though, and they can go fail in normal, heroic and/or mythic until their eyes bleed, and leave LFR to the people who just want to go in, kill something, maybe get some nice loot, and leave.

[PrairieChicken]

I use Rawr, been using it for years, but Mr Robot gave me the same result when I double-checked. Not sure I'd trust these result as it's the only tool that seems to say otherwise.

Mr robot is complete BS and never should be trusted. I don't know what Rawr is

[emni]

Mr robot is complete BS and never should be trusted. I don't know what Rawr is

Mr Robot is completely fine once you put in your own stat weights. It's just a big calculator, just like Simcraft.

Oh and Rawr is probably a bit oldschool, but a quick google will show you what it is. If you don't know who Kavan is then you can't call yourself a mage! :P

[PrairieChicken]

Mr Robot is completely fine once you put in your own stat weights. It's just a big calculator, just like Simcraft.

Which has nothing to do with trinkets though.

[emni]

Which has nothing to do with trinkets though.

Are you implying that trinket DPS contribution is magicked out of thin air? No. It's calculated using various formulas. Tools like Simcraft, Rawr and MrRobot use these formulas to perform such calculations. There's nothing more to it, it's just math.

[PrairieChicken]

Are you implying that trinket DPS contribution is magicked out of thin air? No. It's calculated using various formulas. Tools like Simcraft, Rawr and MrRobot use these formulas to perform such calculations. There's nothing more to it, it's just math.

Mr robot is only based on ep values and trinkets deviate a lot from those since they interact a lot with rotations. Simcraft can catch these variations by mimiking rotations which mr robot doesn't do. You can't just plug in trinkets to these "formulas" and get the right answer.

[emni]

Mr robot is only based on ep values and trinkets deviate a lot from those since they interact a lot with rotations. Simcraft can catch these variations by mimiking rotations which mr robot doesn't do. You can't just plug in trinkets to these "formulas" and get the right answer.

As I said, I use Rawr primarily, which does not only use EP values, I simply used MrRobot to confirm. I really don't know where we're going with this discussion any more since you seem to have already forgotten what I wrote in the first place.

And yes, all of these do use formulas, rotation sims are formulas too...

EDIT: I meant "does not only use", it changes the meaning of the sentence completely.

[PrairieChicken]

As I said, I use Rawr primarily, which does use EP values, I simply used MrRobot to confirm. I really don't know where we're going with this discussion any more since you seem to have already forgotten what I wrote in the first place.

Yes the fact that they solely use ep values makes them unreliable when it comes to trinkets. Try putting things like UVLS or RoO into these.

Ok I just tested this mr robot thing and it tells me that bis trinket for feral druids is assurance and detonator. But in reality Runes of Origination is bis trinket for ferals. Heck they even have separate section for trinkets because they know trinkets don't work with these formulas.

[emni]

Yes the fact that they solely use ep values makes them unreliable when it comes to trinkets. Try putting things like UVLS or RoO into these.

I wrote it wrong, see my edit. Rawr is developed by EJ and has always been highly reliable. You are also highly confused as to what the word "formula" means.

Anyway, this is leading nowhere.

[PrairieChicken]

I wrote it wrong, see my edit. Rawr is developed by EJ and has always been highly reliable. You are also highly confused as to what the word "formula" means.

Anyway, this is leading nowhere.

They might be highly reliable but they are not as accurate as simcraft.

Also rawr thing isn't loading the source code right now so I can't see the details right now

[Nurvus]

All the people saying Yes are self-entitled pricks.

LFR is for those who want to see raiding content but do not have the means or inclination to follow raid schedules of guilds.
LFR is being turned into a PARALLEL progress to Heroic 5-Mans, and giving similar gear.

None of your "hardcore special snowflakeness" is going to be taken by LFR anymore.
No more tier gear dropping from LFR.
Unless... that is precicely the reason you voted "Yes" - in which case, so much for the Hardcore...

I have a question for all of the people who don't want to raid Normals or higher.
If you're not interested in progressing beyond LFR, what do you want the LFR gear for?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Great! And then, let's remove Transmog, ground mounts (other mmos don't have them so why do we??), pet battles, revert to 1 single 40-man raid difficulty where bosses have 3 abilities but people still fail miserably! Let's remove all the progress and features making WoW unique from other mmos!

No. Same as for flying which is also a moronic move to remove entirely from current content. Improvement and innovation > just blatant removal of everything for the easy way out.

Let LFR stay for those that use it. Or maybe we should start removing the crap that self-entitled pricks care about so they can see how it feels when OTHERS decide how YOU play a game!

[Nurvus]

WOD's normal modes like be like MOP's flex mode, aka EASY and COMPLETELY puggable.

So were WotLK 10-man. And no, I'm not talking about ICC raid buff.

MoP Flex is equivalent to WotLK 10-man.
MoP Normal is equivalent to WotLK 25-man.

They're removing Flex as a difficulty and keeping it as a mechanic for other difficulties.
Normal will be like Naxxramas 25.
You'll be expected to come out of Heroic 5-mans or LFR with decent gear to do Normal.

[Sansnom]

Please give u a different way to gear up, LFR is a way to afk and get gear. Take vanilla as an example where you had to put time into gearing up, it was more of a "challenge" and you had a feeling of satisfaction when you got pre-raid gear. Hopefully this will make good players gear up faster than new players.

So. You want Blizzard to give you way to get gear where you have to put time and effort, yet is quite happy to go afk or deliberately die to get gear in LFR?

Am I reading this right?

[Templis]

So were WotLK 10-man. And no, I'm not talking about ICC raid buff.

MoP Flex is equivalent to WotLK 10-man.
MoP Normal is equivalent to WotLK 25-man.

They're removing Flex as a difficulty and keeping it as a mechanic for other difficulties.
Normal will be like Naxxramas 25.
You'll be expected to come out of Heroic 5-mans or LFR with decent gear to do Normal.

Which pretty much changed my stance on WoD from indifferent to excited.

[Pickynerd]

I say remove LFR, Leave in Flex, and heroic.

[Crusch]

I can't think of a single logical reason to let LFR stay in the game.

Rewarding zero effort and knowledge with gear better than heroic 5 mans is pathetic.