LFR : Thought Experiment

[schwarzkopf]

Not sure what the point of this experiment is. Are you trying to imply that a bunch of 14/14H people would have clashing egos and the entire group would just AFK/argue through everything?

Actually - it is just an experiment to see how much of an impact the lack of structure and communications has on LFR runs, and how much of it is just lack of skill.

[Notdev]

Actually - it is just an experiment to see how much of an impact the lack of structure and communications has on LFR runs, and how much of it is just lack of skill.

It most definitely a good bit of both, with a good bit of participants just not giving a crap, but you're kidding yourself if you think your proposed scenario would be anything but ultra fast, painless clears, even if you reduced the ilvl to 496's for everyone.

I'm not sure you realize how gutted LFR is compared to normal, let alone heroic. I fully believe most, if not all, of LFR could be doine with 6-8 heroic geared/skilled players, if not less.

[Relapses]

If you're looking for proof of the lack of skill in LFR raiders, go ahead and queue for Durumu LFR and watch how many people still die to his eye beam. The encounter has been out for longer than a year and there are people who still don't understand the concept that the giant beam is an instakill mechanic.

[blackblade]

Your average LFR guy with 535 gear: 100-120k DPS
Heroic raider with 535 gear(scaled down heroic gear): 200k+ DPS

The difference is immense if you actually know how to play your class.

Yes and no.

The gear scaling mechanism has some pretty interesting inherent biases, classes with haste breakpoints would do significantly less becuase the arbitrary scaling down results in a lot of haste wasted.

Then there's accounting for buffs, while a majority of the groups -should- have access to all the buffs in a 25 man, it's absolutely possible to get some of the rarer buffs missing (spell damage taken debuff, spell haste, to name a couple)

That being said, i'm pretty confident that considering the above, they'd still be able to achieve 100k+ dps.

I think the biggest difference would be that the healers would be bored out of their skull and dps/healing where possible.

[trystero]

Actually - it is just an experiment to see how much of an impact the lack of structure and communications has on LFR runs, and how much of it is just lack of skill.

The problem with your example is that the player pool you're using is both knowledgeable and technically skillful. A more appropriate example would be something like, "Take 25 excellent players who cleared 13/13H in ToT but then quit the game; put them in SoO LFR and report back," or "Take 25 players who have cleared SoO LFR several times on their main but have never raided beyond LFR, and report back."

[Jacob6875]

It would go pretty quick. I mean 5 or 6 of them doing optimal DPS would probably be more than what you get in a typical LFR group.


I mean when the LFR first came out you had around a 530 ilvl if you raided ToT Normal and runs when a lot better than today probably because all the normal mode raiders were in there when it first launched to get trinkets / tier pieces.

[frymastermeat]

My guess would be that with 6 good healers it would be hard to die if you tried.

[Candescently]

My impression is that the heroic/normal raiders who troll SoO LFR by afking or deliberately griefing/wiping are mostly doing it as a misguided protest of the other players' poor performance, or some sort of limbo "how low can you go and still top meters" thing. Setting gear to 535 is still well above the minimum to get in, and everyone presumably knows mechanics, so you don't really need a lot of communication. Regardless of random assignment of leadership, usually someone (often a tank, sometimes not) will step up to do raid markers, mark kill targets, etc. Some groups communicate and joke around a lot in instance chat, some groups are pretty quiet, it's hard to say for sure whether they're more or less likely than the general LFR population to do so.

Generally my runs go smoothly, whether I queue solo or with a couple of friends. Here's a recent log from my alt from SoO: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XQ9cb6NBFrWD71kd We had 3 people die to Annhilate on Garrosh, and one each on the other two bosses, no wipes. A couple of people had low DPS, but even they had decent active time and weren't just autoattacking.

I had a different group that similarly went well, though the log has expired I can repost it. Nobody was calling mechanics, things were fairly quiet, until we got to Thok.

Miaokun: Okay the fact that you guys are doing mechanics properly is starting to creep me out.
Me: lol yeah, everyone's been doing great
Glucas: well I just came out of a 7-stack fight with Hellscream
Dolflundgren: oh god
Claire: ouch
Miaokun: I'm only here because Claire gave me puppy dog eyes.
Glucas: where were u guys when i needed u
Miaokun: I fully intended to never go to LFR. Ever.
Me: well, glad you're here. See, there are nice, competent people in LFR.
Dolflundgren: on tuesday
Me: I mostly get pretty good groups actually.
Glucas: ya most are fine
Miaokun: I mostly get people doing 30k dps. Tanks tanking in fire.
Claire: its cause the LFR gods know you can carry them
Miaokun: And healers asking us to stand in mechanics because "it's hard to heal when we spread out."
Dolflundgren: Fire makes me strong!
Glucas: i actually love healing lfr for the retardedness
Me: gives ya vengeance
Glucas: sometimes it's harder than pvp
Miaokun: I can't carry on this toon!
Me: well I wouldn't put it that way, Glucas, but I'm usually really good at catherding people through with minimal issues
Claire: doing pretty well so far
Me: this group hasn't needed it though
Dolflundgren: alright quick run down of the fight

[Deleted]

Yes and no.

The gear scaling mechanism has some pretty interesting inherent biases, classes with haste breakpoints would do significantly less becuase the arbitrary scaling down results in a lot of haste wasted.

Then there's accounting for buffs, while a majority of the groups -should- have access to all the buffs in a 25 man, it's absolutely possible to get some of the rarer buffs missing (spell damage taken debuff, spell haste, to name a couple)

That being said, i'm pretty confident that considering the above, they'd still be able to achieve 100k+ dps.

I think the biggest difference would be that the healers would be bored out of their skull and dps/healing where possible.

Naah, you're overestimating haste breakpoints. Properly played downscaled heroic should give you numbers far closer to 200k than 100k.

Regardless, it's not important. The entire run would be completely faceroll anyway, I don't think anyone would grief or troll, too, because why would they grief a good group? People grief out of derision and powerlessness when faced with shitty groups, in a group where everyone is on the ball and things are going smoothly, the heroic raiders (being often the competitive sort of people) would be more likely to try to play perfectly and win on dps/hps meters, rather than ninjapulling or griefing.

[Deleted]

They will wipe left and right.

10 of them go AFK.
5 super elites will try to chain pull.

All healers will dps and none will heal the tank.

Im sorry but do you honestly believe this?

I see you in every thread about LFR or raids in general spewing hate over the so called "1% elitists" as you choose to call people that do content other than LFR. Did a heroic raider take your mother out for lunch, and didnt call her again? You seem to have an unhealthy amount of lot of bottled up anger towards a certain group of players.