Artcraft-Huntress of Teldrassil (New Female Night Elf Model)

[Deleted]

Why do you people still fall for what Garian says? I mean, the new night elves have problems, but they don't look androgynous. You know it, I know it, Garian seems to disagree and neither side will convince the other they're wrong. Learn to agree to disagree.
Garian thinks night elves look androgynous. I don't. I think that they have certain issues, like missing eyelashes (which would also fix the problem of too big eyes, as once they're added the eyes would look smaller), missing fall animation, crooked idle stance, some older-new face discrepancies which are quite obvious and low polygon counts.
This is the difference between subjective and objective complaints.
Saying that to you they look androgynous is a subjective complaint. Not everyone agrees... in fact, most people don't agree.
Saying that the new night elf is missing eyelashes is an objective complaint. You can't say she has them, for she doesn't. You can't say she shouldn't have them, for the old model had some basic ones and the preview of the new model clearly had them.

[Deleted]

You still didn't explain what is hardened skin and what's the difference between "soft" and "hard" and how you can see this in the model's texture. You are looping your arguments with no explanation.

All you have to do is use your eyes.

Look at something that's soft like the soft youthful skin of a young woman, then compare it to something hard and hardened like the surface of the moon.

Protrunding cheekbones are objectively considered as very attractive. Just like round breasts, thin waist or long legs for women, or broad shoulders, thin hips and sculpted arms for men. I'm not saying that you must love it, it's just considered as perfect face: oval shape and high, clear cheekbones. Night Elves had protrunding cheekbones even in Warcraft 3, on low definition models.

We're discussing the original WoW models. The cheekbones are way more visible in the new models.

You are passively accepting the new models.

But you probably had mistaken cheekbones with jawbones and the difference is huge. Anyway, what's the matter, you are trolling anyway and I'm so much bored that I'm talking with you. It's Blizzard's fault.

I was merely highlighting the differences.

I can imagine Blizzard debating this exactly like you are. All I see is immature hostility that encourages passive acceptance.

No. We rose above that a long time ago.

[Deleted]

Becuase it's very easy to provoke him by asking few questions, and when he starts to losing his control and insulting everyone other, the Guardian Angel with Banhammer is silencing him on month or two. Fight the troll with his own sword they say!

And androgynous or not, it doesn't matter. But the model has no eyelashes as the only female ingame, no falling animation, wrong colors and has smiles or grimaces of faces that were neutral or very subtly expressed. She has crouched stance. Bad texture mapping on the chest. Et cetera. And her male counterpart is the joke, the same with few other new models. And the core of the problem is, that Blizz devs never ever said "no, we never will improve the models, models are done" - because this would made the situation clear for everyone. Sometimes I think it would be better if they would declare themselves right now, if they are going to tweak the models or leave them looking like that, for now they said nothing concrete, only something "we didn't said last word, so maaaaybeeeee we will do something with the models, or maybe not, we don't know yet". That is frustrating.

Look at something that's soft like the soft youthful skin of a young woman, then compare it to something hard and hardened like the surface of the moon

Such a poetic description! But you know, I never seen a human with skin as hard as surface of the moon.

You are passively accepting the new models.

...aaaaaand? So what?

[Alkizon]

Please, tell me what exactly is "hardened skin". I cannot immagine this even on real person, so especially on the model. How is looking hard skin and how is looking soft? Show me this on the pictures. Because now the only "hard skin" that I can immagine, is queen Nefertete and if she really looked like that, she was pretty hot lady:

But she's made of limestone, so she need to be hard. Anyway Night Elf female is made from polygons, but I don't know if the polygons are hard or not.

And protrunding cheekbones are something what is considered very sexy and attractive, did you know that? Every female model and photomodel has them. Women are doing plastic surgery only to have protrunding cheekbones.





Here you have female models with three different ethnic types - all of them are objectively beautiful, and all of them have high, protrunding cheekbones, even underlined by make up.

So, your argument is invalid. Again.

And why you aren't fighting for eyelashes, for example? Eyelashes are something that is objective, model has them or don't. Hard skin isn't objective, because even you cannot describe what is this.

Cheekbones on these photos dose not belong to faces, it's just make-up.
(Liv Tyler, also in this photo have a very streamlined oval shape of the face and there is no any visible cheekbones or angular shape back wall of the jaw, so that it is more like example "not in your favor" )
The classic face had almost the same size (I mean cheekbones protruding part (that the faces become wider it's obvious), but all the female's faces were changed by the same algorithm (mouth wider, wider nose, big eyes, emphasized evolved cheekbones, jaw, chin, and angular rear wall of the jaw, in someone more in someone less, but this changes were made for all of them (the blood elves are lucky because most people began to howl on the forums about models that already were ready and about those that were still in the process)), but they were not underlined by shadows as new (unlike human females who hadn't such cheekbones, and now they have it and they exaggeratedly with dark red color (depends on skin color)). As for me - it makes face looks bony, I hate this kind of make-up (to tell the truth, I do hate almost all kinds of "bright" makeup, life-makeup is enough (<- something like this face is better to be base for human female's faces - it's much more like the classic one)), but in the European part of the Earth it's considered to be attractive (that's why, indeed, some people go on such operation).
Ie there is only one argument against these changes: it was not so in classic models.

And about the androgynous appearance. Ie this form face with such kind of back wall of the jaw just looks awful for me, but I can't attach this with something androgynous, it's just can be not attractive but why androgynous. Another thing is that the old model had a thin and elongated body type, and the new model is wider at the waist (was thin)/chest (was more angular but not wide)/hips (was narrow with strong legs, but not fatty), this parts now looks like bursting with steroids... but why someone calling this androgynous, i really don't understand (maybe I misunderstood translation?)

[Deleted]

The new NE females look like masculinized women. Beyond merely athletic.

Before they were young and beautiful but powerful at the same time.

Maybe someone at Blizzard didn't like that. Considering how much this has been debated here, this debate could have easily spilled over into WoW.

Time will tell.

Personally, I don't believe that Blizzard were lazy and incompetent and rushed out the models. Night Elf females were always extremely popular; that means they would be a top priority.

Perhaps the Activision guy who's running Blizzard at the moment wanted to encourage players to race change.

[Izalla]

I was hoping Garian would give me advice on how to open my eyes to this objective reality but I guess he doesn't want me to see it =(

As for the recent tweaks, I mean maybe they could still do something as big as the eye lashes or whatever (which really isn't big but you know what I mean), but they've had two patches now to do it. For whatever reason they have changed other models much more than female nelves. They are either happy with them and don't care what everyone still thinks is wrong with them, or happy enough with them not to bother. OR, they are saving bigger work on them for a time when they have less to work on and can make more than a couple small tweaks. Dunno, but I'm not holding my breath. I wanted the falling animation put back.

- - - Updated - - -

Such a poetic description! But you know, I never seen a human with skin as hard as surface of the moon.

Isn't the surface of the moon just dust? Dust isn't very hard. I've not seen a very dusty person before, but I guess if they have really dry and flaky skin or something!

[Celista]

Why do you people still fall for what Garian says? I mean, the new night elves have problems, but they don't look androgynous. You know it, I know it, Garian seems to disagree and neither side will convince the other they're wrong. Learn to agree to disagree.

You must not be reading Garian's posts all that carefully, because people tend to ignore him until he becomes bait-y. It's not an issue of "learning to agree to disagree", if anything it should be "learn to ignore (insert creature that spends its time living under bridges)."

[Izalla]

You must not be reading Garian's posts all that carefully, because people tend to ignore him until he becomes bait-y. It's not an issue of "learning to agree to disagree", if anything it should be "learn to ignore (insert creature that spends its time living under bridges)."

He might be more modern than that. In this day and age it could be an overpass!

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

Cheekbones on these photos dose not belong to faces, it's just make-up.

Not exactly. Their cheekbones are highlighted by make up (and are highlighted, because high, clear cheekbones are considered as attractive), but they are also very protrunding from nature - it's the most visible on those photos where model is from half-profile.


The same with Liv Tyler - when she is from half profile, her cheekbones are visible:

But she indeed has not very protrunding cheekbones, but just average - but still her cheekbones are far from being flat.

Flat face (with not protrunding cheekbones and chubby cheeks) is looking like that:


But generally Night Elf face was always long and oval, very similar in shape to Liv Tyler's face and with high cheekbones. Now it's too broad - and while cheekbones remain almost exactly the same, jawbone is now much broader and too much angular in comparison to old model's one. The difference is very big and noticable, and the most frustrating thing is that when Blood Elf had too long chin or stretched panties texture what was making crotch bulge effect, it was fixed during month, maybe two. But Night Elf has too broad jaw (I'm even not mentioning now about all those eyelashes et cetera) - it's looking like that since half of the year and Blizzard's devs even didn't said if the models are done or not.

[Deleted]

You must not be reading Garian's posts all that carefully, because people tend to ignore him until he becomes bait-y. It's not an issue of "learning to agree to disagree", if anything it should be "learn to ignore (insert creature that spends its time living under bridges)."

We have a better solution Celista: we simply won't buy a game that has been destroyed.

We highlight the fact that the new models should be changed to be closer to the original models, yet nothing happens.

We are disappointed.

Nothing happens.

We share our disappointment.

Nothing happens.

Then people tell us to passively accept change for the worse. No. That's not how business works. Businesses exist to supply demand. *We* decide what we want to buy, not you or anyone else. Liberty is an extremely powerful idea. It resonates with a person's soul and echoes down through the passages of time.

I can only speculate as to why Blizzard destroyed Night Elf females.

Imagine if all the female characters in WoW were masculinized and Blizzard said nothing. Would you accept it? Or would you move onto greener pastures created by men who love beautiful female characters? Because believe me, feminists aren't going to create them, and most developers are men because they possess innate talents that most women lack. What I don't understand is why any of these men would serve an agenda that sees men as evil rapists and as the source of all the world's problems.

I'm angry because I used to love Blizzard. I fell in love with Starcraft and Warcraft 3. I've always loved knights and medieval fantasy. Those games helped me through some very dark times, and people like you want to destroy them.

So think I am baiting you all you want, we're not going to play politically correct feminist-approved games.

The Witcher 3 is great by the way.

[Deleted]

We have a better solution Celista: we simply won't buy a game that has been destroyed.

(...)

The Witcher 3 is great by the way.

Why are you talking in the plural? You sounds like Gollum "Filthy Bagginsss iss a nassty thief, he sstole our preciousss! Gollum, gollum!". What your doctor said about this?

So:
1. Simply don't buy destroyed World of Warcraft.
2. Go play Witcher 3 instead of WoW.

[Deleted]

Why are you talking in the plural? You sounds like Gollum "Filthy Bagginsss iss a nassty thief, he sstole our preciousss! Gollum, gollum!". What your doctor said about this?

So:
1. Simply don't buy destroyed World of Warcraft.
2. Go play Witcher 3 instead of WoW.

So much this.

Also, lol. It does sound a bit like Gollum. xD

[Deleted]

Simply don't buy destroyed World of Warcraft.

We won't.

2. Go play Witcher 3 instead of WoW.

We will.

You expect us to passively accept change for the worse. What world do you live in where that is the norm?

All it would take to put this to rest is for Blizzard to state that they aren't happy with the current models and are going to improve them.

That's it. But I suppose the Activision guy pulling everyone's strings there at the moment believes that would be bad press, and that's assuming they will even fix the models.

Blizzard sacrificed the quality of this game for short term profits. They increased the price of a normal expansion in the knowledge that it wouldn't last.

That's something EA would do. Ah the world of business. Activision are basically the Microsoft of games publishers now.

[Alkizon]

Not exactly. Their cheekbones are highlighted by make up (and are highlighted, because high, clear cheekbones are considered as attractive), but they are also very protrunding from nature - it's the most visible on those photos where model is from half-profile.

I was talking about the shadows, the problem is in them. I know how they look like and how protruding could be, but there are some individuals who are constantly trying to emphasize them even more than they are and put make-up (but they much better look without that (it's photoshop ofcourse, but a little makeup is enough)). So what is the "protruding" in those faces is make-up, and cheekbones are sufficiently attractive.
But I understand what you're saying.
And about Liv Tyler, I mean specifically only the photo you showed first.
Generally there is one trick: if you have a certain shape of the skull - with head down a little you can hide cheekbones and back wall of the jaw on your photos so that it will seem as if you have more streamlined face (yes it's also photoshop, but look so close (form and proportions not make-up ofcourse) to the classic human females faces (except nose maybe)). But turn NE females face in human-like just isn't true, the same way how to turn draenei females torso into a human (why they are broken their own conception).

I hate Blizzard for all-and-all (for every one) changes that they have made, because all that I wanted to see is revamp, but not absolutely new models. It is like completely different game, it's the other races and characters - I don't know them and don't even want to know (not even looking at that my main is undead male).

[snuzzle]

You've grown up around some VERY effeminate boys it seems, if you still think nelfs look androgynous.

But those are the best kind of boys!

In all seriousness, please stop talking to Garian. He only wants to derail the thread. He'll talk about "hardened skin" then post a photo with the new model in unflattering lighting. When you post one in normal light and ask where the hardened skin is, he ignores it. Let him talk himself into a tizzy to himself.

[Deleted]

I was talking about the shadows, the problem is in them. I know how they look like and how protruding could be, but there are some individuals who are constantly trying to emphasize them even more than they are and put make-up (but they much better look without that (it's photoshop ofcourse, but a little makeup is enough)). So what is the "protruding" in those faces is make-up, and cheekbones are sufficiently attractive.

I understand now what you mean, I thought you were saying about skull's structure. Because about skull, new model of NE has cheekbones protrunding in the same way or maybe even less prominent than old one had, it's well visible on Artcraft picture:


But about shadows... hmm, it depends of face I think. Most of faces have very similar shadowing under cheekbones like their old equivalent had - maybe except face 4, 7 and 8, those ones indeed have now too dark shadows on cheeks, while those faces were rather supposed to be not very shaded looking closer to that Arwen photo I posted previously.

That's about cheekbones digression, anyway I'm pretty sure that Garian just mistaken cheekbones with jawbones (because jawbones are indeed definitely too much broad and angular now). I predict that the next thing he will be complain about, will be nose, or ears maybe - generally the least important things that are making NE female looking "manly" (ha, no, no manly, she's not manly anymore, just androgynous - it's a kind of progress!) in his eyes. And that mysterious hardened skin, as hard as the surface of the moon.

[Alkizon]

Well the most horible thing is that classic face was oval and new like piramide form + very sharp chin (it was just narrow part of the elongated oval), but very wide angular rear wall of the jaw .. and this new long, wide mouth... for all models
(also this nose colors and shadows on Artcraft - she look like a little drunk)

And a little offtopic (sorry):
I was bored and I took more similar to the JLo (on that poster) face from 6.2 set (number five, with full lips). After two minutes of photoshop it turned into what is on the right: just raised a little shoulders, thiner neck, no rear wall of the jaw, little more full cheeks, removed cheekbones, removed the smile, less the length of the mouth, a smoother form of lips and blurred contours, seated eyebrows in place and change their shape and brightness, turned down the brightness of mascara on eyes, slightly change their form and diminishing the size of the eyes and complitly smeared eyelids (they make eyes even bigger than they really are, so i left only a light circuit)... it took 30 seconds and another 1:30 to highlight and choose hair color similar to the classic (about +40 points of blue)... can somebody throw a link to a screen of the fifth classic face with slightly darker skin color than white? - I do not have an active subscription now, i'm waiting 6.2 to finally decide for the future (subscription) so I had to do it from memory, just want to compare.

[Deleted]

But those are the best kind of boys!

In all seriousness, please stop talking to Garian. He only wants to derail the thread. He'll talk about "hardened skin" then post a photo with the new model in unflattering lighting. When you post one in normal light and ask where the hardened skin is, he ignores it. Let him talk himself into a tizzy to himself.

The only thing more frustrating than Blizzard is your passive acceptance.

I mean, if the new Night Elf females were more profitable, that I could understand and accept.

3 million subs lost and counting. I was almost prepared to tolerate talking pandas, but Blizzard also have to destroy everything that made WoW great in the first place.

These unpopular changes, and the stubborn refusal to reverse them, have a source.

Buy The Witcher 3 by the way!

[Baconeggcheese]

3 million subs lost and counting.

It makes me gigglesnort every time I see someone evoke the sub drop being attributed to their personal pet peeve.

It's freaking adorable.

On a sadder note: Still can't be a night elf warlock and the night elf female models the best alliance model