Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill 1.1

[Deleted]

I've already said why Russia is not a rising market. 5th post above yours.

The whole world of economists considers russia a rising market. It is actually painful to see you keep trying.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC

just read the bloody thing, under statistics so you avoid embarrassing yourself publicly like that next time.

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This is like me arguing France isnt in Europe.

[Deleted]

The whole world of economists considers russia a rising market. It is actually painful to see you keep trying.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC

just read the bloody thing, under statistics so you avoid embarrassing yourself publicly like that next time.

Checked under statistics and got data from 2010. Again, if you try to argue about Russia being a rising market in 2010, then I would agree with you completely. However, Russia's attitude has changed dramatically since then. A rising economy is supposed to get investments, and Russia is getting none.

[Deleted]

Checked under statistics and got data from 2010. Again, if you try to argue about Russia being a rising market in 2010, then I would agree with you completely. However, Russia's attitude has changed dramatically since then. A rising economy is supposed to get investments, and Russia is getting none.

Russia is getting none? Data please.

[Deleted]

Russia is getting none? Data please.

That was a hyperbole obviously, but it's clear that a lot of people are not investing in Russia as seen by the low shares. And the people who do invest are investing very long term, when Russia has become West-friendly again.

[Deleted]

Not sure you actually got the point of that article:

Indeed, Luz Padilla, head of DoubleLine’s emerging markets fixed-income group and manager of its Emerging Markets Fixed Income fund, says Russian bonds still look great. When Western sanctions against Putin scared the market, she increased her already significant Russian exposure by about one percentage point. In fact, she would have bought more, except prices bounced back so quickly “there wasn’t much of a buying window,” she says

[Deleted]

Not sure you actually got the point of that article

But I did. Here's parts of the article that you missed:

“To me that is screaming, if you could close your eyes, and not look again, you might be very pleasantly surprised a few years from now – maybe. Maybe,” says Darst, now a senior advisor to Morgan Stanley

Still, for many portfolio managers, the answer to investing in Russia right now sounds more like “hell no.”

Back in 2005 and 2006, Rudolph-Riad Younes, the former portfolio manager at Artio Global Investors (before it was sold to Aberdeen Asset Management) who has recently launched R Squared Capital Management, had invested nearly $16 billion in about 50 companies across Russia and Eastern Europe. “We were one of the largest, if not the largest investor in Russia,” he says. But a few months ago, he sold the last of the shares he owned in Sberbank – before the tensions in Ukraine escalated – because he was not satisfied with how the companies were behaving. “They were getting less shareholder-friendly than before,” he says. “When you go from good to less good, or bad to more bad, usually it’s not a good time to make money.”

[Deleted]

But I did. Here's parts of the article that you missed:

Well... you clearly missed the part I marked though.
Which is reflected in this article too:
http://www.businessinsider.com/ukrai...stanley-2014-5

Russia is in too much of a comfortable place to not enjoy a rising economy. By the way, again, this is arguing solid facts now. Russia is BRIC. And that's pretty much the way it is.

[Deleted]

Well... you clearly missed the part I marked though.
Which is reflected in this article too:
http://www.businessinsider.com/ukrai...stanley-2014-5

Russia is in too much of a comfortable place to not enjoy a rising economy. By the way, again, this is arguing solid facts now. Russia is BRIC. And that's pretty much the way it is.

Again, by your definition any country can be considered a rising market, even if your article clearly states that Russian economy is expected to grow with measly 1%.

And your article further proves my point:

... but the pre-Crimea invasion status quo isn't coming back for a while. The Russian economy has "subdued medium-term prospects," and the firm "[does] not expect a full return to the status quo before Crimea's annexation for some time." The lingering economic and political sting of EU and US sanctions, along with Putin's position that Russian-speaking areas in Moscow's near-abroad now have the right to secede, means that investors "are likely to reduce their exposure to Russian assets."

Russia will not grow to be a meaningful economy again until it starts helping with stabilizing the situation in Ukraine and work with the West again.

[Deleted]

Again, by your definition any country can be considered a rising market, even if your article clearly states that Russian economy is expected to grow with measly 1%.

And your article further proves my point:


Russia will not grow to be a meaningful economy again until it starts helping with stabilizing the situation in Ukraine and work with the West again.

It's not MY definition. I can't actually believe you're still on about this. You're arguing against the world of economics on your own.

[Deleted]

It's not MY definition. I can't actually believe you're still on about this. You're arguing against the world of economics on your own.

But it is your definition, no one else considers Russia a rising economy in great power-context.

[Deleted]

But it is your definition, no one else considers Russia a rising economy in great power-context.

You really shouldn't talk about things you barely know tomat. You risk coming out with stuff such as this which should be used as a signature.
You clearly don't know the meaning of "rising market". You're clearly confusing it with macroeconomic changes. Please next time try to inform yourself on the argument before jumping in with boots and all.
This is getting painful to attend and I have a football match to watch.

[Deleted]

You really shouldn't talk about things you barely know tomat. You risk coming out with stuff such as this which should be used as a signature.
You clearly don't know the meaning of "rising market". You're clearly confusing it with macroeconomic changes. Please next time try to inform yourself on the argument before jumping in with boots and all.
This is getting painful to attend and I have a football match to watch.

Which team are you cheering for, Argentina? Bosnia and Herzegovina? Switzerland? I-know-Tomat-is-right-so-I-flee-before-I-make-a-fool-out-of-myself-and-use-football-as-an-excuse?

[Deleted]

Which team are you cheering for, Argentina? Bosnia and Herzegovina? Switzerland? I-know-Tomat-is-right-so-I-flee-before-I-make-a-fool-out-of-myself-and-use-football-as-an-excuse?

Tomat... You're not right. You dont actually know what you're talking about. Why should I keep arguing with you about whether or not russia is a rising market. I might as well debate about whether or not France is in europe. Anyway, Bosnia. They're playing excellent football.

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The arrogance of an ignorant man... god almighty.

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Ok guys. From tonight on, russia Isn't a rising economy anymore. Tomat said it.

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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_markets

Better get busy tomat and call all these guys to inform them they're wrong. IMF, S&P, Dow Jones... get busy.

[Deleted]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_markets

Better get busy tomat and call all these guys to inform them they're wrong. IMF, S&P, Dow Jones... get busy.

Well, I trust that they are right. The problem is that there's nothing about Russia in 2014. For the third time, I'm not going to argue that Russia is a rising economy in 2010, but the situation has altered dramatically in 2014 and all the statistics you bring up are from <2013.

[Deleted]

Well, I trust that they are right. The problem is that there's nothing about Russia in 2014. For the third time, I'm not going to argue that Russia is a rising economy in 2010, but the situation has altered dramatically in 2014 and all the statistics you bring up are from <2013.

And this is why I told you before you obviously are getting confused between two bits politico economic changes and macroeconomics based on decades and mathematic outcomes.
But instead of getting the drift and silently move out you not only keep coming back, but you also do it aggressively.

Russia is an emerging market. And no, Ukraine (lol) is not going to prevent this 150 million people giant country, world biggest exporter of gas and 2nd biggest exporter of oil, neighbouring china and Europe from watching its economy rise from zero as It was 25 years ago to normality.
But then again, to not get this point you have to be either a complete plank, or simply being biased.

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So wait, every single of those groups consider Russia an emerging market and people claim it's not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergin...s#Summary_list

I don't understand you still kept responding to him.

I'm an idiot I know. But I can't take someone being so wrong acting so aggressively.

[Deleted]

Djalil, I have explained my thought-process to you multiple times, yet you keep insisting on that all you have to do is link old statistics and suddenly you have the right to call me a plank. You have barely come with any arguments that you have formulated yourself. The only time you did so you made a complete contradiction. I think this speaks volumes for someone whose main argument is a macroeconomical one.

Political changes and economy are directly linked, many recessions have come to pass due to politics because in the end economics is all about predictability. That's it. Mathematical predictions of economic changes are just that; Predictions.

The equations these major firms use are based on if Russia remains in an unchanging situation, but these equations stop working the moment Russia breaks the calm and invades another country. No one predicted this, therefore investors abandon Russia because many of them does not want to gamble with their shares, they need to be able to predict Russia's actions to gain money.

With the breach of the treaty that was to protect Ukraine from foreign aggression Russia has also broken the investors' trusts. People does not want to invest in a country they cannot trust because again they cannot predict what Russia is going to do. Why do you think Ukraine is the second-poorest country in Europe despite being the home of 44 million people? Because investors can't trust a country when they know authorities hide facts about the country's economy in order to make sure the population doesn't find out how corrupt the government is. Again, predictability.

In the end, you cannot prove me wrong as I cannot prove you wrong because 2014 statistics does not exist. The difference here being that I use economic logic to demonstrate my point whereas you use old, and thus redundant, statistics to drive your point home.

[Deleted]

Djalil, I have explained my thought-process to you multiple times, yet you keep insisting on that all you have to do is link old statistics and suddenly you have the right to call me a plank. You have barely come with any arguments that you have formulated yourself. The only time you did so you made a complete contradiction. I think this speaks volumes for someone whose main argument is a macroeconomical one.

Political changes and economy are directly linked, many recessions have come to pass due to politics because in the end economics is all about predictability. That's it. Mathematical predictions of economic changes are just that; Predictions.

The equations these major firms use are based on if Russia remains in an unchanging situation, but these equations stop working the moment Russia breaks the calm and invades another country. No one predicted this, therefore investors abandon Russia because many of them does not want to gamble with their shares, they need to be able to predict Russia's actions to gain money.

With the breach of the treaty that was to protect Ukraine from foreign aggression Russia has also broken the investors' trusts. People does not want to invest in a country they cannot trust because again they cannot predict what Russia is going to do. Why do you think Ukraine is the second-poorest country in Europe despite being the home of 44 million people? Because investors can't trust a country when they know authorities hide facts about the country's economy in order to make sure the population doesn't find out how corrupt the government is. Again, predictability.

In the end, you cannot prove me wrong as I cannot prove you wrong because 2014 statistics does not exist. The difference here being that I use economic logic to demonstrate my point whereas you use old, and thus redundant, statistics to drive your point home.

Again?
First off, "emerging market" by itself stands to represent countries which are closing the gap with their more developed counterparts. There are a few definitions and russia matches them all.
This has nothing to do with this two bits fabricated crisis. That's what makes your point unsustainable. You're arguing against a definition. Russia IS an emerging market, as per definition, and so say all major economic groups.
Thing is you're confused. You're thinking at "positive looking economic year". This is completely different.
You're arguing that "white" doesn't mean "white". And to be honest, I really wonder why you're doing this.

Oh no I CAN prove you're wrong. I just did. Have a look above at the list of all economic analysts considering russia an emerging market. Do you seriously think this fabricated Ukraine crisis is going to send russian economy back 30 years?
You dont seem to comprehend what exactly you're arguing about.

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Even in the worst possible scenario, with most investments leaving the country, Russia would still be an emerging market. This is how its economy is defined as.

[malgin]

What can I say...Russia is about vodka, balalaika and dancing bears You can't change this way of thinking because old monkey cannot learn new tricks.

[Deleted]

Russia is an emerging market by old definition. If Russia keeps up the isolationist attitude, then it will stop being an emerging market because then Russia pulls out of the market.

You're the one misunderstanding my point. Russia's economy isn't going to go back to how it was 30 years ago, but it will slow down dramatically until Russia's economy becomes predictable again so investors can safely invest in the country.

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What can I say...Russia is about vodka, balalaika and dancing bears You can't change this way of thinking because old monkey cannot learn new tricks.

Well no, I don't really care about Russian culture, you can keep it without sacrificing the economy.

[malgin]

Russia is an emerging market by old definition. If Russia keeps up the isolationist attitude, then it will stop being an emerging market because then Russia pulls out of the market.

You're the one misunderstanding my point. Russia's economy isn't going to go back to how it was 30 years ago, but it will slow down dramatically until Russia's economy becomes predictable again so investors can safely invest in the country.

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Well no, I don't really care about Russian culture, you can keep it without sacrificing the economy.

Tell us please what kind of a market would Russia be if it stop being an emerging market.