Rights group says video shows Israel killed 2 Palestinians unlawfully

[Stelio Kontos]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhacir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecu...ttoman_Muslims

Wait, you mean conquered, enslaved populations kill the people who conquered them until they get up and leave the occupied territory?

I love how you cry about Christians rising up to throw out and kill Muslim invaders, but then defend Palestinians doing the same thing.

The exact same thing. Killing and fighting those you believe to be invaders.

Such a hypocrite. And the fact you refuse to answer a simple question is telling. The lack of a committed answer is all the answer needed.

[kidkilla]

I'm not asking about religion, this is about politics. Should Muslim leadership extend to European, historically Christian nations once ruled and enslaved by Muslim regimes?

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I'm asking because I've run into "True Believers" like him on other forums. They bring their Da'wa to forums, argue everything from rote positions they hear from an imam or sheikh on youtube, and argue that the kufr deserve to be ruled by Muslims because land that was once under Muslim rule is always Muslim in the eyes of Allah.

You should ask your question in a Muslim Forums. I do not have enough knowledge about Islam at the moment to answer your question. If you have seen Muslims on other forums saying that once a land is under Muslims rule the land is always under Muslim rule please link the posts because I am curious to see how that is justified.

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Wait, you mean conquered, enslaved populations kill the people who conquered them until they get up and leave the occupied territory?

I love how you cry about Christians rising up to throw out and kill Muslim invaders, but then defend Palestinians doing the same thing.

The exact same thing. Killing and fighting those you believe to be invaders.

Such a hypocrite. And the fact you refuse to answer a simple question is telling. The lack of a committed answer is all the answer needed.

The Muslims brought civilization to Europe. When Muslims ruled Andalus Muslims, Christians and Jews were treated fairly. When the Christians in Andalus restored Christian rule only Christians were tolerated.

[Takure]

Source is from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowkey

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The Muslims ruled the countries you listed better than the Christians. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world anyway.

And look at the rotten world we live in today. Coincidence?

[Stelio Kontos]

You should ask your question in a Muslim Forums. I do not have enough knowledge about Islam at the moment to answer your question. If you have seen Muslims on other forums saying that once a land is under Muslims rule the land is always under Muslim rule please link the posts because I am curious to see how that is justified.

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The Muslims brought civilization to Europe. When Muslims ruled Andalus Muslims, Christians and Jews were treated fairly. When the Christians in Andalus restored Christian rule only Christians were tolerated.

It's actually the other way around. The Golden Age of Islam was heavily influenced by Greek and Roman civilization. European civilization.

Especially during the Umayyad Caliphate. They essentially borrowed existing Byzantine social and political structures during that caliphate, and only made their own during later ones.

Europe brought civilization to the Arab tribes that left the peninsula. Stop learning your history from salafists.

[PaladinBash]

Seems like Israel is winning again. Good job, Israel.

I think the greatest irony here is that radical (and stupid) Muslims clamour for war and death and whatnot but when even the most tiny thing is done to stop them in any form, it's the end of the world. I mean really. It's hard to take a cause seriously when it's main whinging point is that Jews are beating them.

[kidkilla]

It's actually the other way around. The Golden Age of Islam was heavily influenced by Greek and Roman civilization. European civilization.

Especially during the Umayyad Caliphate. They essentially borrowed existing Byzantine social and political structures during that caliphate, and only made their own during later ones.

Europe brought civilization to the Arab tribes that left the peninsula. Stop learning your history from salafists.

I am not a Salafi. Back then European Christian civilization consists of European Christians persecuting and killing anyone who is not a Christian. During the Muslim rule in Andalus Muslims, Christians and Jews were treated fairly.

[Stelio Kontos]

Seems like Israel is winning again. Good job, Israel.

I think the greatest irony here is that radical (and stupid) Muslims clamour for war and death and whatnot but when even the most tiny thing is done to stop them in any form, it's the end of the world. I mean really. It's hard to take a cause seriously when it's main whinging point is that Jews are beating them.

In an old forum I used to moderate, we had a Muslim poster very similar to OP here. He'd rant endlessly about Israel-Palestine.

Then once someone made a topic about the Armenian genocide, you know, over 1.5 million people killed, not even counting Assyrians and ethnic Greeks killed in the same period, and this joker starts ranting about it all being Armenian and Greek lies. Then he says the victims of genocide were the Turks, and he links to an article about a couple thousand Turkish Muslims dying over the course of an entire war, and he raged about that being a true genocide.

Completely myopic.

[kidkilla]

And look at the rotten world we live in today. Coincidence?

The world is in a bad state because Anti-Islam racists like the BJP in India are in power.

[Stelio Kontos]

I am not a Salafi. Back then European Christian civilization consists of European Christians persecuting and killing anyone who is not a Christian. During the Muslim rule in Andalus Muslims, Christians and Jews were treated fairly.

You sound like one. And I know lying about such things is allowable if it furthers the cause, so I have no reason to believe you. A Salafist denying being a salafist would classify as taqqiya, right?

Also, European civilization goes back far before Christianity. Greeks and Romans, and Arabs borrowed HEAVILY from Greco-Roman political and literary sources.

[Deleted]

And look at the rotten world we live in today. Coincidence?

Actually Atheism is growing 4 times as fast as the fastest growing religion. Religion is growing mainly in countries that lack proper education, and non religion in developed countries.
there's actually a correlation between years spent in school and likelihood of becoming non-religious.

[kidkilla]

In an old forum I used to moderate, we had a Muslim poster very similar to OP here. He'd rant endlessly about Israel-Palestine.

Then once someone made a topic about the Armenian genocide, you know, over 1.5 million people killed, not even counting Assyrians and ethnic Greeks killed in the same period, and this joker starts ranting about it all being Armenian and Greek lies. Then he says the victims of genocide were the Turks, and he links to an article about a couple thousand Turkish Muslims dying over the course of an entire war, and he raged about that being a true genocide.

Completely myopic.

Not everyone believes in Islamophobic propaganda.

[Deleted]

As if it's any surprise that parties engaged in wars commit atrocities.

[Calfredd]

You sound like one. And I know lying about such things is allowable if it furthers the cause, so I have no reason to believe you. A Salafist denying being a salafist would classify as taqqiya, right?

Also, European civilization goes back far before Christianity. Greeks and Romans, and Arabs borrowed HEAVILY from Greco-Roman political and literary sources.

As fun as it is to watch you stump him, I'd urge caution so as for you to not get an infraction (judging your post count you obviously know what lines to not cross) as I'd feel bad because you are an interesting poster (meant as a compliment).

[Stelio Kontos]

Not everyone believes in Islamophobic propaganda.

But facts are facts, and the Armenian Genocide is a fact. So your point is irrelevant.

[Xires]

Israel shouldn't be at all.. It's palestinian land, been that way for 2000 years until Americans for some reason decided jews should have it back.. that's like the rest of the world deciding Native Americans should have America back and gating all Americans behind walls around New York while leaving the rest to Indians.. Which would make more sense since it's not as long time ago America was Indian land as it is since Israel (Palestine) was Jewish land.. But hey, America rules the world, right?

You need to learn your history if you think that that land belongs to the Palestinians cause it doesn't.

[kidkilla]

You sound like one. And I know lying about such things is allowable if it furthers the cause, so I have no reason to believe you. A Salafist denying being a salafist would classify as taqqiya, right?

Also, European civilization goes back far before Christianity. Greeks and Romans, and Arabs borrowed HEAVILY from Greco-Roman political and literary sources.

If you consider persecuting and killing anyone who is not a Christian as European civilization then I guess you are free to hold that view. European paganism is one of the most stupid ideas in the world. Worshiping a piece of rock or metal is a stupid idea but I can't do anything about you thinking that it is European civilization. Taqiyya is a Shia Rafidah practice. Shia Rafidahs are not Muslims. Shia Rafidahs curse the Sahabah.

[Anium]

Sadly these cold blooded killings happen too often. I really wish for peace between these two nations, but compromise is hard to come by when such wrong doings happen daily. How do you compromise when both people feel it is their land and they have every right to stay?
Isreal is a ticking time bomb, with 15-20 billion given to them each year by the US which they use to fund their military. People have the audacity to turn a blind eye to this? While the palenstinians are slowly being thrown off THEIR land, houses destroyed, olive trees burnt, livelyhoods ripped apart, midnight kidnappings of children taken from their homes at gunpoint FOR NO REASON and thrown into an isreal prison, not knowing when you may see your family again. Such atrocities sicken me.

[Stelio Kontos]

As fun as it is to watch you stump him, I'd urge caution so as for you to not get an infraction (judging your post count you obviously know what lines to not cross) as I'd feel bad because you are an interesting poster (meant as a compliment).

Yeah, I'm trying to keep calm, don't want to insult the religion as a whole. But Islamic cultured borrowed heavily from Byzantine Greeks and Sassanid Persians.

Sadly, the native pre-Islamic culture of Persia was almost entirely wiped out, so while some cultural aspect of Byzantine culture survive in Greece and the Orthodox world, the Sassanids were essentially wiped out as a culture and society.

Everyday folks are fine when it comes to religion, but the hardliners of some groups (including some sects of Christianity) tend to be rather myopic in their views of history.

[kidkilla]

You need to learn your history if you think that that land belongs to the Palestinians cause it doesn't.

Most Jews are Khazars or Ethiopians. Khazars and Ethiopians do not have any claim to Palestine.

[Stelio Kontos]

If you consider persecuting and killing anyone who is not a Christian as European civilization then I guess you are free to hold that view. European paganism is one of the most stupid ideas in the world. Worshiping a piece of rock or metal is a stupid idea but I can't do anything about you thinking that it is European civilization. Taqiyya is a Shia Rafidah practice. Shia Rafidahs are not Muslims. Shia Rafidahs curse the Sahabah.

Pre-Christian Greeks, Romans, Celts, Germans, and Slavs didn't worship rocks or metals. They worshiped a complex array of gods.

Again, try to educate yourself using other sources than what some mufti rants from his minbar.