[6.0] Shadow Priest Discussion

[davesignal]

You should really unpack your acronyms. Yeah, space is at a premium on Twitter, but you've got plenty of room on your graph to be unambiguous.

Edit: And that would be really good to post in the theorycraft thread on the official forums, complete with formulas and the like, if you've not already.

[Frmercury]

Acronyms always have and always will be heavily used in Shadow vernacular. No reason to type out Vampiric Touch when VT works just fine.

[davesignal]

Acronyms always have and always will be heavily used in Shadow vernacular. No reason to type out Vampiric Touch when VT works just fine.

That's my point: it works just fine when you're talking to people for whom that's part of the vocabulary. You're not making graphs and tweets to convince people on H2P, you're trying to convince developers. Anything that makes it easier to digest new information is to your argument's benefit.

Think of it as a new talent, Clarity of Marketing.

[Frmercury]

Do you really think they need to be hand fed like that? Sure try not to go overboard when they have 34 specs to deal with but in context it's clear what is being discussed.

If they had clarification questions they would also ask them, as they often do.

[davesignal]

In a word? Yes.

When you're selling something, you don't want to use lingo. You don't want to use acronyms, unless it's integral in some way. You want the information to be clear, concise, and well supported from the word go-- ambiguity is your enemy. This isn't an insult to anyone's intelligence, it's just how things work. Any time spent having to double check an acronym or suss out for yourself the logic behind an implied formula is time spent away from your message.

A clear, unambiguous message works wonders. Otherwise, all you have is a vague graph with nothing but implied formulas and acronyms.

Don't get me wrong; I believe the graph, but that's because it's an argument from a position of authority for me. I am, frankly, assuming it's right without bothering to check, because I trust the source. Blizzard is less likely to do that! They're very busy people, and if they have to work backwards from a graph to ensure they understand the argument and then verify it, well, they might set that aside to tackle unambiguous (read: easy to diagnose) problems first.

Basic marketing: make it easy for your audience.

[Deleted]

The graph itself is meaningless without the data, could just throw any old labels on it.

I realize the graph DOES mean something, but it needs data to go with it to hold any weight.

[Frmercury]

The audience for the graph are Spriests at large, the numbers and methodology have already been passed on to devs. I guess that's where you're making the wrong turn.

[davesignal]

Slightly, yeah, but do remember there's probably more people who don't know a lick of theorycraft than those who do. There's never really any downside to making things clearer and easier to understand!

[Nestar]

Slightly, yeah, but do remember there's probably more people who don't know a lick of theorycraft than those who do. There's never really any downside to making things clearer and easier to understand!

As there have been in the past, There will be more appropriate documentation made up specifically for that audience.
Those will be more along the lines of "What's changed since MoP" "BiS Lists" Talent Choices" and the like. All of which are a much better use of time after all the class changes and tuning have been completed.

[Frmercury]

As there have been in the past, There will be more appropriate documentation made up specifically for that audience.
Those will be more along the lines of "What's changed since MoP" "BiS Lists" Talent Choices" and the like. All of which are a much better use of time after all the class changes and tuning have been completed.

Yeah, but I'm a masochist so I started already.

I already have the bones of my 6.0 guide started.

Yeah, I need help.

[Dierdre]

do remember there's probably more people who don't know a lick of theorycraft

That's not the audience the graph is aimed at. You can either:

1. Familiarize yourself with rather basic spriest nomenclature.
or
2. Wait for the "For dummies" version.

[Deadmedic]

not sure if it was otherwise noted, found out last night that Prayer of Mending has a cast time, and Halo has a much faster animation, seems to be more quickly dmging enemies too, but i dont have evidence to support that. DP cant be cast with less than 3 orbs either, but im sure thats been talked about.

[Shahad]

not sure if it was otherwise noted, found out last night that Prayer of Mending has a cast time, and Halo has a much faster animation, seems to be more quickly dmging enemies too, but i dont have evidence to support that. DP cant be cast with less than 3 orbs either, but im sure thats been talked about.

All three of those things have been known about for a little while, yeah. PoM is part of the changes to healing and I can only assume the Halo change is to make it more practical to use on moving targets.

[Deleted]

Anyone been to Shadowmoon Valley? Without spoiling too much.. the entire zone is pretty much one big Shadow loregasm. We have Orcs using countless variations of Shadow and Void spells, void vacuums, crackling void lightning (which looks AWESOME), void beasts, void totems, void orbs just to name a few.. so many amazing looking shadow spells. ON NPCS.

It made me feel like the devs are waving a juicy steak in front of our noses going "Hey look you SP A-holes look at these pretty and flashy and absolutely jaw-dropping new shadow spells we came up with, and now watch as we GIVE THEM ALL TO NPCS! HAHAHA"

Just Crackling Void Lightning alone would look absolutely godly as a minor glyph for Mind Flay.. It's a kick to the nuts they'd put so much creative effort into coming up with awesome new shadow spell animations and then give them all to completely irrelevant questing NPCs instead of using them to polish up old shadow priest spells. ;(

Lies. Shadow WoD Master race confirmed.

[Deleted]

In a word? Yes.

When you're selling something, you don't want to use lingo. You don't want to use acronyms, unless it's integral in some way. You want the information to be clear, concise, and well supported from the word go-- ambiguity is your enemy. This isn't an insult to anyone's intelligence, it's just how things work. Any time spent having to double check an acronym or suss out for yourself the logic behind an implied formula is time spent away from your message.

A clear, unambiguous message works wonders. Otherwise, all you have is a vague graph with nothing but implied formulas and acronyms.

Don't get me wrong; I believe the graph, but that's because it's an argument from a position of authority for me. I am, frankly, assuming it's right without bothering to check, because I trust the source. Blizzard is less likely to do that! They're very busy people, and if they have to work backwards from a graph to ensure they understand the argument and then verify it, well, they might set that aside to tackle unambiguous (read: easy to diagnose) problems first.

Basic marketing: make it easy for your audience.

Dude, yo, dude, no need to be an SoB with a D in your B, let the H2P geez do these to please the leets. You get me bruh?

- - - Updated - - -

"Devouring Plague now always costs 3 Shadow Orbs." What is the point of shadow orbs again? Just put DP on a CD.
That'd be significantly different. (Celestalon)

It would be the superior method. You try so hard to make shadow orbs work but they offer no real advantage over just a CD.
Hyperbole gets you nowhere. It *obviously* offers significant real advantage. (Celestalon)

You could just slap a longer cd on plague then reduce it through haste or MB casts or apparitions or w/e. Objectively superior.
I think you have a different concept of "objectively" than I do, and also ignored what I just said. (Celestalon)

Like really, I feel the only reason why they're so set on keeping shadow orbs is because they'd have to rework talents if they were removed...

Maybe i'm a minority but it seems to me that a resource to spend gives much more flexibility to gameplay than a CD. This applies to both MoP and WoD styles, mainly because DP can be used when you want to use it within a certain window without delaying orb generation (unless you spec DI), whereas a CD really has to be used as soon as it's up to get the most out of it.

[Bryanator1989]

Can you still cast leap of faith and prayer of mending in shadow form?

[Kaesebrezen]

Can you still cast leap of faith and prayer of mending in shadow form?

Leap of Faith, yes - PoM, no.

[Searsha]

Devouring Plague now heals for 100% of the damage done rather than 15% of your total health. Not sure how this is going to affect the overall healing.

[Deleted]

Devouring Plague now heals for 100% of the damage done rather than 15% of your total health. Not sure how this is going to affect the overall healing.

That depends does Celestalon mean the upfront damage + dot or just the damage of the ticks?

If it's the last it would be much difference, if it's upfront+dot it would be a bit more?

[Yvaelle]

Yeah, but I'm a masochist so I started already.

I already have the bones of my 6.0 guide started.

Yeah, I need help.

Hahha - funny you should mention this I started on mine about a week ago too!

- - - Updated - - -

That depends does Celestalon mean the upfront damage + dot or just the damage of the ticks?

If it's the last it would be much difference, if it's upfront+dot it would be a bit more?

It's not that easy to say without numbers to play with. I'm travelling for this coming week, but after that I will finish getting to 100 and start throwing around some mathy scenarios to test

For what it's worth, I very much assume he means the upfront+dot - and personally I think that's a better model overall than 15% split over the duration. It means we can burst heal ourselves better by delaying our DP a few seconds here or there - when possible - to land that big upfront heal for ~8% of our health.