WoD Beta Demonology Discussion

[iriecolorado]

Step 1: Nerf Demo by 30% because your internal tools are broken and in the process make it clear that not a single person on your team plays a Demonology Warlock. Demo is now performing below holy priests. Tell people they're wrong and tweet "I'm not seeing it" and "lol no" when they point it out. Act like a smug, glib, dismissive little dickhead any time somebody comes to you with any evidence of your screw-up.

Step 2: After a few thousand tweeter messages you realize your mistake and revert the 30% nerf. Demo is now in the upper-middle of the pack at 100. Unfortunately, Demo is performing too well at 90. Even though 90 is only for a couple more weeks, you decide something must be done!

Step 3: Even though level 90 damage is irrelevant and you've made the point that nothing is tuned for 90, you decide to return almost all of the 30% nerf that put us below holy priests. Demonology is now back in the toilet at 100.


Meanwhile Warriors are still running rip-shit over everything, outperforming us at 100 by over 50%. This guys really have no fucking idea what they're doing, do they?

[Jetjaguar]

I do like that marks hunters are getting big buffs and while they are awful at 90, they were middle of the pack/upper middle of the pack single target at 100. Now they will just be a top tier dps spec that can cast while moving. Meanwhile, fire gets nerfed and NOTHING is done about arcane, which is just as good or better than fire currently even after nerfs to supernova.

It's cool though, devs can continue to respond with "that's not what we're seeing" when they get any sort of negative feedback to widen whatever disconnect there is between them and the playerbase, which is only exacerbated by how shitty of a medium twitter is for communicating these type of exchanges in the first place.

[Zoldor]

Step 1: Nerf Demo by 30% because your internal tools are broken and in the process make it clear that not a single person on your team plays a Demonology Warlock. Demo is now performing below holy priests. Tell people they're wrong and tweet "I'm not seeing it" and "lol no" when they point it out. Act like a smug, glib, dismissive little dickhead any time somebody comes to you with any evidence of your screw-up.

Step 2: After a few thousand tweeter messages you realize your mistake and revert the 30% nerf. Demo is now in the upper-middle of the pack at 100. Unfortunately, Demo is performing too well at 90. Even though 90 is only for a couple more weeks, you decide something must be done!

Step 3: Even though level 90 damage is irrelevant and you've made the point that nothing is tuned for 90, you decide to return almost all of the 30% nerf that put us below holy priests.


Meanwhile Warriors are still running rip-shit over everything, outperforming us at 100 by over 50%. This guys really have no fucking idea what they're doing, do they?

I was thinking the same thing. I ran destro this week and the other lock ran demo, he was ahead, but not by some mystical 30% margin. Warrios wrecking it 3 spell 17% nerf to one spec, everything else working as intended. Demo is starting to feel like shaman did through cata...we don't know what to do so lets be really reactionary.

[iriecolorado]

I do like that marks hunters are getting big buffs and while they are awful at 90, they were middle of the pack/upper middle of the pack single target at 100. Now they will just be a top tier dps spec that can cast while moving. Meanwhile, fire gets nerfed and NOTHING is done about arcane, which is just as good or better than fire currently even after nerfs to supernova.

It's cool though, devs can continue to respond with "that's not what we're seeing" when they get any sort of negative feedback to widen whatever disconnect there is between them and the playerbase, which is only exacerbated by how shitty of a medium twitter is for communicating these type of exchanges in the first place.

Maybe, just maybe some of these dickhead developers should pull their heads out of their broken simcraft tools and actually play some of the classes, eh? It reminds me of this stat-squish disaster. If they took the time to have one person on the team run each raid once, they would have found almost all of these issues.

Does anybody that develops this game even play it anymore?

[bio347]

Step 1: Nerf Demo by 30% because your internal tools are broken and in the process make it clear that not a single person on your team plays a Demonology Warlock. Demo is now performing below holy priests. Tell people they're wrong and tweet "I'm not seeing it" and "lol no" when they point it out. Act like a smug, glib, dismissive little dickhead any time somebody comes to you with any evidence of your screw-up.

Step 2: After a few thousand tweeter messages you realize your mistake and revert the 30% nerf. Demo is now in the upper-middle of the pack at 100. Unfortunately, Demo is performing too well at 90. Even though 90 is only for a couple more weeks, you decide something must be done!

Step 3: Even though level 90 damage is irrelevant and you've made the point that nothing is tuned for 90, you decide to return almost all of the 30% nerf that put us below holy priests. Demonology is now back in the toilet at 100.

You got Step 1 right, although in a needlessly hostile manner.

Step 2, though, was more than just a reversion of the nerf. It brought Demo back up ABOVE pre-pre-nerf status (IE, Demo suffered a 15~20% nerf and then the 30% nerf, and the buff put it somewhere higher than it was before that FIRST nerf).

Step 3: Maaaaaybe Step 2 was a bit much. Oh wait, no, the developers just personally hate you again (and also Fire mages and Fury warriors, but THEY'RE NOT ME SO WHO CARES AMIRITE!?).

[Deleted]

Step 1: Nerf Demo by 30% because your internal tools are broken and in the process make it clear that not a single person on your team plays a Demonology Warlock. Demo is now performing below holy priests. Tell people they're wrong and tweet "I'm not seeing it" and "lol no" when they point it out. Act like a smug, glib, dismissive little dickhead any time somebody comes to you with any evidence of your screw-up.

Step 2: After a few thousand tweeter messages you realize your mistake and revert the 30% nerf. Demo is now in the upper-middle of the pack at 100. Unfortunately, Demo is performing too well at 90. Even though 90 is only for a couple more weeks, you decide something must be done!

Step 3: Even though level 90 damage is irrelevant and you've made the point that nothing is tuned for 90, you decide to return almost all of the 30% nerf that put us below holy priests. Demonology is now back in the toilet at 100.


Meanwhile Warriors are still running rip-shit over everything, outperforming us at 100 by over 50%. This guys really have no fucking idea what they're doing, do they?

+1000000000000000000000

[iriecolorado]

Step 3: Maaaaaybe Step 2 was a bit much. Oh wait, no, the developers just personally hate you again (and also Fire mages and Fury warriors, but THEY'RE NOT ME SO WHO CARES AMIRITE!?).

Strawman. I never once said they have any ill will to me personally. What I'm pointing out, dear boy, is that their actions indicate to me that they have no idea what they're doing. Multiple 30%+ swings in overall damage in the span of a few short weeks isn't balancing, it's what happens when 'out-of-touch' meets 'incompetence' meets 'panic.'

What I see is a dev team that spends all of their time looking at their (broken) internal simulation tools instead of actually playing the game.

[Deleted]

nobody asks them to release 6.0.2 this week... (with a mytique mode easier than the normal mode of 5.4).

it's what happens when incompetence meets panic -> celestion /kiss

[kendro1200]

Ex, Buff everyone to 20
Pro: Nobody nerfed = nobody unhappy (?)
Con: Whole game just got ~50% easier.

Odd that buffing people is out of the question when apparently things had to get nerfed because they were overtuned...Maybe skip nerfs on content and classes and buff the relevant classes? Or you know, ignore tuning for a build tuned for a different level cap and focus exclusively on the level cap balance scene, let content that will only be around for a month be stupid easy and focus on the real task at hand.

[Akakishin]

I'm surprised they didn't nerf hellfire/immoAura, since it was part of our rotation in some cases

[Santoisms]

I'm surprised they didn't nerf hellfire/immoAura, since it was part of our rotation in some cases

Immo is stupid still especially with Mannoroth's.

[Caides]

Immo is stupid still especially with Mannoroth's.

At 90 it's not. It's not worth taking Mannoroths at 90 currently because if you're in a situation where you're going to AoE, DS+2 CW will result in more damage than MF. Immolation Aura average of 1.7k is hardly worth it. When every mob you're going to use Mannoroths on at 90 is nerfed into the ground and boss fights are ending in under 2 minutes now, that doesn't help the case for Mannoroths either.

Mobs should live much longer at 100, which should bring the value of Mannoroths back up to an even playing field and worth using. I still wouldn't call Immo 'stupid' in either scenario.

[Last Starfighter]

In a way, he's the one to blame. I think he dismisses feedback, even without knowing. Some people are tired of how he handled things/gave "whatever" responses and stoped giving feedback and others just lost faith on his comunication skills.

Let's put things into perspective here. People will never not be tired of a response unless it's the response they want to hear. They already go into a post seething, and the second they hear something they don't like, it's over. Demo needed a nerf badly. 20% from where it was at doesn't feel completely unreasonable. Could be a little bit less, but people need to stop feeling like they're personally attacked. If you are angry over a change in a video game, then that game has too much priority in your life.

[Werst]

Demo bolt needed to be 30% nerf "vs player targets" only, not the blanket nerf. So now cata is better even without meta mastery single target though by later tiers DB will likely scale better but that isn't an excuse to leave it as a trap talent for 90-100 and at least the first tier. Shadowbolt has the lowest DPET in the game...no way that needed a nerf, same with corruption ticking for nothing but this nerf spills into aff as well which was already double nerfed. ToC took a beatdown in the name of "anti mobility police". Chaos wave is better than people give it credit for. Its nice as a ToC proc but hardly anything anyone who plays demo well uses intentionally. It hasn't been a pvp relevant spell since like 5.1 when gosac demo + MF made it a team bomber. EVERY 100 stream I watched you didn't see demo dominating...upper midpack maybe but nothing like warriors who took half the hit we did. Bad judgement call on devs side, rushed product on a slipping scale of quality.

[Jessicka]

Just throwing out there that the 30% nerf to DB puts it back to 3 casts I believe. This will surprise everyone but me.

We'll see over the next few weeks if 20% was too much, but honestly after last night comparing between Fire and Fury and the rest of the pack, it probably is that bad. Fire are also nerfed 20%, and Fury 17%, so really don't take it personally.

Also, to someone who called it lazy, blanket nerfs happen to keep rotations in shape, otherwise you get the whole ToC - SF swapping places debacle over again.

[Filabane]

I feel justified in my earlier post about 6.1...

Demo is a constant kneejerk spec. Every reaction to it is too far one direction or the other. After the buffs there at the end of the beta everyone was confusedly asking "really?" for a reason. Demo has a bad habit of not really being viable until the X.1 patches.

I do find it funny that after the 30% nerf and then the buff after us being horrible, like Holy Priest bad, that we're once again hit with a ~25% nerf.

[Deleted]

Let's put things into perspective here. People will never not be tired of a response unless it's the response they want to hear. They already go into a post seething, and the second they hear something they don't like, it's over. Demo needed a nerf badly. 20% from where it was at doesn't feel completely unreasonable. Could be a little bit less, but people need to stop feeling like they're personally attacked. If you are angry over a change in a video game, then that game has too much priority in your life.

All you advocate in all of your posts is"nerf warlocks".Why do you play a warlock or frequent these forums?

[Novx]

Let's put things into perspective here. People will never not be tired of a response unless it's the response they want to hear. They already go into a post seething, and the second they hear something they don't like, it's over. Demo needed a nerf badly. 20% from where it was at doesn't feel completely unreasonable. Could be a little bit less, but people need to stop feeling like they're personally attacked. If you are angry over a change in a video game, then that game has too much priority in your life.

Considering they recently mention Affliction as a spec that needed to be nerfed on live I most definitely feel we are entitled to consider it an attack on the class. Have you played an aff on live...it is a joke.

[Deleted]

Considering they recently mention Affliction as a spec that needed to be nerfed on live I most definitely feel we are entitled to consider it an attack on the class. Have you played an aff on live...it is a joke.

Really. Because it's number 1 on single target dps?

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/5#boss=1600

Empirical data can't be that wrong. Affli warlocks are going to dominate now anyways.

It's like "Oh they nerfed demo so it isn't 20% ahead, so just let's play affli and be 19% ahead".

[Rtrain]

201 parses. I assume a lot of people switched when they found out UA/Agony hadn't been nerfed yet. That with more parses on the nerfed health versions, getting carried by a talent, all of a sudden you have some misleading data. Affliction will have a pretty close to 10% nerf this week.