Savage roar, completely useless?

[Mazaxist]

I can kind of relate as a mage. We have an ability called invocation - that gives 15% damage for 60 seconds. 2 sec cast. Completely useless and stupid ability. Why not just buff all damage by 15%.. I really have no clue what the developers were thinking.

Other classes have similar abilities that are a MUST. like rogue slice and dice. at least slice and dice seems to be more fun because you hit faster, where a pure dps buff is completely useless imo.

[Mormolyce]

Characterising them as handicaps is pretty silly... by that logic using Rip is also a handicap, because if Rip is X% of your DPS, then Blizzard balances around that so your DPS is tuned X% lower than it would be if there was no Rip.

Same thing could be applied to any ability. If Blizzard removed ALL your active abilities and all you had was autoattacks, those autoattacks would do 100% of your current world damage...

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I can kind of relate as a mage. We have an ability called invocation - that gives 15% damage for 60 seconds. 2 sec cast. Completely useless and stupid ability. Why not just buff all damage by 15%.. I really have no clue what the developers were thinking.

Because what would be the point of the 90 tier? Why not remove your bombs and bake in that damage passively? Hell remove all your abilities other than frost bolt etc and make all other damage passive...

The problem with Invo isn't the design, it's that it requires a lot of maintenance, slows down your rotation... basically, it isn't fun.

[cFortyfive]

Hell remove all your abilities other than frost bolt etc and make all other damage passive...

Why would you leave that in ? Damage should be applied by just being in game.
Every class has abilities they have to use abilities to deal optimal damage and I don't see the problem with that.

[Skadovsk]

Rogues' slice and dice, paladin inquisition, MM hunter improved steady shots, to an extend eclipses for balance druids.. all those are handicaps in the disguise of buffs. You just keep them up to be normal. Savage roar might be one of the most punishing handicaps, but it is definitely not the only one.

Honestly how is something as easy all that considered a handicap, specially MM holy shit that buff lasts for 1 hour now, its been buffed several times, by this logic having down syndrome or high ping is a handicap in the disguise of a debuff.

[adynn]

100%/1.4 = 71.5%, not 60%.

If you were to increase 60% by 40% you'd be on 84%.

In other news, while SR is a pretty boring buff, other classes do have mechanics like it.

[Deleted]

So savage roar gives a 40% buff to all melee dmg. Seems fine right? Then why does my 40% dmg buff equal to every other classes 100% dmg? Its bloody retarded.We are constantly playing with a 40% handicap, unless we keep an eye out for savage roar. What other class has that? If they would make it 140% dmg (so 40 on top of 100% instead of 60%), id understand it, but this is just stupid.

Did they lack proper skills for a rotation, and go ´well fuck, lets just give em a 40% debuff at all times that can be removed while maintaining a good rotation´. Its like making DK´s aura´s on 20s timers with a need for refresh within the rotation. Or a mage that actually has to evocate every 30 seconds. Its ridiculous. And in PvE its manageable even. But holy shit pvp.

Unless u have the glyph, the first 10 seconds ur busy getting savage roar up. Not only that, but due to kiting, etc. As soon as SR wears off, ur fucked. All the combo points u can muster need to be converted into SR, or ull be doing shit damage. But while doing so, u never have enough to get a rip or ferocious bite out.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? SR is fine.

The idea that feral is slightly harder to play then your average mdps is what makes it appealing to a lot of us that play it. SR was a bit of a burden at the start of the xpac, but this was because of the way energy based classes scale through-out the course of an xpac, and not because SR was hard to keep up. Imagine they remove SR and just bake it into your class (exactly what the level 100 talent does), all you have to do is keep rip, rake and thrash when you can be bothered up, does that sound like interesting gameplay? At the moment, we have to wisely pick what to spend CPs on, if both are close to expiring, part of the job of a good feral is to make sure that he makes the right choice, for the right situation, and you could argue that it applies to all specs, and you would be right, it does, but no where near as punishing as it is for a feral.

Having played alpha for a bit too, SR is getting sort of a buff, since you get an entire 54 seconds worth of SR for opening up on a mob with rake, and found myself only really having to cast SR when I was on a boss, and even in ilvl 500 (limited to that in dungeons) it was not difficult. I don't really like saying this much, as I really do try and get people to like feral, but if the SR mechanic isn't for you, and you don't like how it is, you are best playing something else, because the way alpha is atm, it seems it's here to stay.

[Itisamuh]

Yeah it's a stupid mechanic. I'm glad they're giving a way to make it passive, assuming they don't change their minds again.

[Deleted]

Rogues' slice and dice, paladin inquisition, MM hunter improved steady shots, to an extend eclipses for balance druids.. all those are handicaps in the disguise of buffs. You just keep them up to be normal. Savage roar might be one of the most punishing handicaps, but it is definitely not the only one.

you just compare random spells you know that right?

[Lamedruid]

Whenever I see these threads discussing savage roar in it's current iteration it always surprises me that nobody brings up the way the ability used to work. The buff to auto attack damage was necessary to keep up to maximize dps and was not as punishing to let it fall off. I believe this puts it a lot more in line with slice and dice and would generate less distaste for the ability in general.

The complexity of the class would be maintained, and it's usefulness in pvp would still apply. I just don't understand why they changed it in the first place.

[Novarian]

So you want to know what other classes or specs have similar mechanics?
- All DoT specs need to "keep an eye out for their DoTs"
- Mages need to "keep an eye out for their Bomb spells"
- Rogues need to "keep an eye out for their Slice and Dice"
- Windwalker need to "keep an eye out for their Tigereye Brew"
- Death Knights need to "keep an eye out for their Diseases"
- Fury Warriors need to "keep an eye out for their Enrage" to determine when to use Bloodthirst, Colossus Smash and Berserker's Rage.

It's called Ramp Up mechanic.

Retribution lost their Inquisition but still have a DoT called Censure that stacks up to 5. Until the DoT reaches 5 stacks Ret are not doing their full damage.

Its primary function is preventing you from just unleashing your full damage out of nowhere.

If you want dumbed down gameplay I sincerely hope Blizzard finds a way to ignore your every word.

I can see your argument, but the thing is feral druids have rake and rip as dots (rip taking a lot longer to put up properly than a warlock/shadow priest's dots). Also another fault in your logic is that if this was the case then why would Blizzard make glyphs that allow you to start a fight (thus no real ramp time) with Savage Roar on by allowing a glyph to be cast with no combat points for 12 seconds (which is getting a buff to a full duration Savage Roar by using a rake or shred while stealthed in WoD).

Personally I am indifferent towards the spell mechanics as it is now, the problem I have with it is that it affects ALL damage where most of the other spells mentioned (SnD, Inquisition etc) only effect parts of the overall damage. SnD only effects auto attack speed while Inquisition only effects holy damage. Have it be something that only increases auto attack damage or even bleed damage so that you still need to maintain it but aren't as severely punished if it falls off for a few seconds.

[Whydrood]

Well, I look at SR like I would look at weapon imbues on a shaman (which btw are now passives) or a DK's horn of winter. Granted letting SR fall doesn't mean you cant use one of your larger damaging abilities like a shaman, nor does it restore energy, however in my eyes it is kind of pointless to have it up for such a short period of time as ONLY a damage increase. It costs both CP and Energy to use, and the only benefit you get from it is a passive damage increase for 12-45 seconds. Although with combo points being attached to the druid and not the target, I think it will make it much easier to maintain, but I think they need to give us some form of reason to use it rather than being something to fill the "void" in our rotation, because if you think about it - the only reason it exists is to give us a button to press to get rid of CP's while we wait for the next trinket proc. I would like to see it work a bit more like Harmony does for the resto spec - and that would be to activate our mastery for DoT's rather than a %dmg increase.

[Drilnos]

SR, as far as I'm concerned, is the very definition of rotational bloat, a spell that has no effect on playstyle and has always seemed to have been added for the pure sake of adding something. Slice and Dice's fat, ugly cousin, a relic of the days when they were designing ferals explicitly as rogue wannabes. Feral dps ramps all on its own without it. There is no joy felt when the button is pressed, unless you count the grim satisfaction in the fact that it will be 42 seconds before you have to press it again.

I would not mourn its loss. I am, however, a little annoyed that the only way to peel this combo point sucking leech off the rotation as of WoD is to sacrifice an actually interesting ability.

[ponies]

oh man i thought it was just automatically gong to be a passive. it sucks that you have to spec into it. using savage roar in pvp is so lame it just fucks up my mojo

[Bonkbonk100]

Characterising them as handicaps is pretty silly... by that logic using Rip is also a handicap, because if Rip is X% of your DPS, then Blizzard balances around that so your DPS is tuned X% lower than it would be if there was no Rip.

Same thing could be applied to any ability. If Blizzard removed ALL your active abilities and all you had was autoattacks, those autoattacks would do 100% of your current world damage...

Funny, I thought it was more enjoyable to use your combo points on moves that did damage rather than apply a flat arse boring buff that just puts you on par with other classes. If we follow your logic, Blizzard would never have removed the dreaded inquisition that ret was "blessed" with back in Cata.

Again, with your logic, all our attacks and combo finishers could just be buffs you would apply to boost your auto attack damage. Sounds like fun, I would never notice the difference. Nope.

[Sylar Hao]

No its not, feral is at least midpack for aoe and cleave, and fuck you sound like you just want to play rogue with a cat model for fucking real.

With that verbal abuse you just lost any kind of point you had. If you can't discuss something without insulting when someone disagrees with you, then you shouldn't even read any kind of forums.

And no, I've stated very clear I want to be a feral, not a rogue with a cat model, 'for fucking real'.

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Funny, I thought it was more enjoyable to use your combo points on moves that did damage rather than apply a flat arse boring buff that just puts you on par with other classes. If we follow your logic, Blizzard would never have removed the dreaded inquisition that ret was "blessed" with back in Cata.

Again, with your logic, all our attacks and combo finishers could just be buffs you would apply to boost your auto attack damage. Sounds like fun, I would never notice the difference. Nope.

Indeed.

We're damage dealers, our mission is to deal damage, and as hybrids also give some support or help in critical situations, not to keep track of a buff. If only Savage Roar triggered some kind of proc that deals a different attack or that forces you to use a different ability to make the most out of it, or just a finisher that deals damage somehow with its own special mechanic, then I'd be more than happy and I wouldn't be complaining about it. But it's just a plain buff.

At least SnD is an attack speed with energy reg. buff, that gives you more oportunities to adjust your rotation, and if you fail to keep it up the damage lose is relatively low because your attacks doesn't deal less damage. But Savage Roar not only is just a boring buff, but it's also extremely punishing damagewise. There's a big difference here.

[Fugus]

I honestly have always seen Savage Roar as completely useless and an insult.

When it first came out, it was similar to what they have now, broken by design. It boosted all damage except it was also considered to be an enrage effect for a while where other druids, rogues, hunters and I think even priests could sooth it away, removing 40% of our damage in a single instant cast.

Then they actually changed it to not actually be so bad where it just affected white hits. Then it was actually closer to the Slice and Dice it was meant to mimmic.

Then they had to fuck up and return it to the same damn broken by design bullshit all over again.


To those who compare Savage Roar to Slice and Dice, this is more like if they forced rogues to no longer be able duel weld or use damage based poisons. Then giving them a new finisher and call it "Unsheathe Weapon" that when used allows you to use your off-hand weapon and activates the damage based poisons on your weapons and how long you get to use your weapons and poisons is based on the number of combo points you used.

If they want it to be like SnD, either change it back to only affect white hits or actually have it grant melee haste. Savage Roar as it stands is an insult to feral. Just like Savage Defense was in its first incarnation.

[Unholyfap]

without SR the most basic form of the feral rotation would be 3 buttons (2 bleeds and mangle/shred).... they gotta put a skillcap into the class

[Fugus]

without SR the most basic form of the feral rotation would be 3 buttons (2 bleeds and mangle/shred).... they gotta put a skillcap into the class

Didn't say they need to remove it entirely, just need to at least not much it such crap.

I played during the time when feral had bar-none, the highest skill cap in the game when Mangle only lasted a few seconds and we had to keep track of Rake, Rip, Savage Roar, Mangle, Tigers Fury, Berserk and all that other crap.

Change it to affect Melee Haste or something, but nothing like they currently implemented that is completely crippling to everything we do with absolutely no use but to bloat the bar and hinder the class by huge extremes if misused.

[Skadovsk]

No its not, feral is at least midpack for aoe and cleave, and fuck you sound like you just want to play rogue with a cat model for fucking real.

Edit: infracted -- please be courteous to other users.

Mmm yes delicious infractions, salty like tears, I grow stronger.

SR is here to stay, you all need to stop crying for easier gameplay, all the ideas or changes that have been used try "fixing" it are either stupid or bad and get reverted, for a reason.

[Deleted]

without SR the most basic form of the feral rotation would be 3 buttons (2 bleeds and mangle/shred).... they gotta put a skillcap into the class

saying that removing SR will make feral to be 3 button class and will reduse the skill cap shows how clueless you are about the spec