Trials of Ascension, Shady Practices and the Big Crowdfunding Debate

[dextersmith]

There is some discussion in the Kickstarter comments section about how crappy the tier bonuses are for people who pledge. And believe me it is pretty bad what you get for a pledge. Some games load up rewards in the lower tiers to get the masses interested so everyone is getting a good deal. That is not the case with ToA and some comments have been negative about it. There are complaints about the descriptions, the rewards, the way it is handled and basically being called a poor job. In response they say "Actually, a lot of time and effort went into establishing the tiers. We even used a focus group to comb over all of it."

I don't know what kind of 'focus' group they had, but it was people that weren't very familiar with how to do a good Kickstarter pledge system. A 5 dollar donation gets a forum badge in the backers forum of the ToA website, big woopity do. The next pledge tier jumps up to 20 dollars and gives out digital rewards (a poster), like come on. a digital poster? Also they get 1 day of early access before launch.

Those rewards are so underwhelming I'm not surprised people are complaining that you have to shovel over massive cash to get anything that would be viewed as worthwhile. Once again FC has shown that their planning groups miss the mark.

focus group ie fan volunteers? What don't they do? They're spokespeople, pr, pledge makers, spammers, coders, suckers...........

[Kyanion]

focus group ie fan volunteers? What don't they do? They're spokespeople, pr, pledge makers, spammers, coders, suckers...........

Haha whatever 'focus group' they used, needs to never be used again. Unless the goal was to go down in flames in KS.

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I'll cut down on the gif posting of comments soon after this, but this one just is so mind-blowingly stupid I had to post it.



I think the ironic part of this is that this guy is making these comments at Android.

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Android's posts- 4640.
Talon-thorn 342.
Also Android backed more money to this game. This guy is just incredible to be that blind.

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I love the lottery part. If I win the lottery I sure as fuck wouldn't be tossing my money down the drain like that!

[dextersmith]

And for all that effort some dude tells him the ToA graphics are better than Oblivion. Which is bullshit. Even Morrowind graphics are better than ToA. Some of these people are completely blind to negativity.

Blakeg seems very reasonable there too.

[Kyanion]

Blakeg seems very reasonable there too.

Yeah same impression I got, Blakeg responded to that Talon-Thorn with a very reasonable break down of that crazy post.

[Juvencus]

So here's my question is people who want to bring down toa for the scam it is(if it is), why not do the opposite and try and force the KS to succeed so they have to deliver the game? Wouldn't that be more punishment then them at worst not having to do anymore work and running away with 60k? (Not my thoughts of what they are doing but just keeping a widened perspective).

On another note-i was a demo island tester and only missed one test sooo if you have questions feel free to ask as we are free from our NDA for the time being. I'll answer to the best of my ability

Would you vote again for a president that failed to make his promises a reality, just because he might 5 more years to do so?
Would a bank give me a loan while my current loan payments are behind and I have no job?

In what (non idealistic) universe is giving *more* money to someone who failed to deliver with your other money, a good idea?

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Also to comment on Hanlon's Razor, which is a variation of:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice"

[Throren]

Am I the only one cracking up about the huge differences in how the ToA and Crowfall kickstarters are working out so far? Gave me a chuckle

[Kyanion]

Am I the only one cracking up about the huge differences in how the ToA and Crowfall kickstarters are working out so far? Gave me a chuckle

Oh god they are going up against Crowfall? They are even MORE doomed now. I am kind of surprised Crowfall only needs 800k, they must be pretty close already. I don't really know much about the game at all but they have a hell of a team that has actually been involved in making games. I'm reading over the KS for Crowfall now, I'm kinda impressed.

Edit: Yeah they say they are pretty far along from the baseline for Crowfall. Not exactly my type of game but looks a lot more polished than ToA does, as you can tell by the amount of people backing the game in the first day.

[Kelimbror]

Am I the only one cracking up about the huge differences in how the ToA and Crowfall kickstarters are working out so far? Gave me a chuckle

I was about to get angry even hearing Crowfall is on kickstarter, but then I actually took the time to look at it. That is what an MMO kickstarter (if we even should allow it at all) should look like. They have spent tons more time and their own money to get this far. They have gameplay footage, detailed gameplay plans, and obvious and well communicated experience in the field.

Forged Chaos should be ashamed.

[dextersmith]

So here's my question is people who want to bring down toa for the scam it is(if it is), why not do the opposite and try and force the KS to succeed so they have to deliver the game? Wouldn't that be more punishment then them at worst not having to do anymore work and running away with 60k? (Not my thoughts of what they are doing but just keeping a widened perspective).

So they can run away with $600k? The objective is to protect the naive, not make them fail to be mean.

I see your ploy. I'm not marketing nor donating.

[Taojnhy]

Haha whatever 'focus group' they used, needs to never be used again. Unless the goal was to go down in flames in KS.

Well, it looks like Fornax was a part of that focus group and attempts at raising concerns were pretty much ignored by FC:



So, I don't think I'd blame the focus group here.

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Yeah same impression I got, Blakeg responded to that Talon-Thorn with a very reasonable break down of that crazy post.

Oh, there's plenty more crazy where that came from!

[Deleted]

Whoa Crowfall looks goood! That combined with Savage Lands will have me sorted.

[Kyanion]

Holy fucking crap, that Talon-Thorn guy literally scares me. That is fanboyism that goes far beyond Kool-Aid drinking. This is response to the newer Talon-Thorn post over on the ToA forums that was linked a bit ago.

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Whoa Crowfall looks goood! That combined with Savage Lands will have me sorted.

Yeah Crowfall should be one of those things that will get you a lot of enjoyment based on how it looks from the KS.

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Anyone notice the fan-fic they are pushing off as game lore in the KS updates? *shakes head* So many wrong ways they are going about things.

[Taojnhy]

Am I the only one cracking up about the huge differences in how the ToA and Crowfall kickstarters are working out so far? Gave me a chuckle

Thanks for bringing up Crowfall; I just looked at their KS and both the game and presentation look really good. Good enough that I'm considering making this the first thing I've ever backed on Kickstarter.

edit: In the last 30 minutes I've had the Crowfall KS open, they've raised more money than ToA has total.

[Kyanion]

Thanks for bringing up Crowfall; I just looked at their KS and both the game and presentation look really good. Good enough that I'm considering making this the first thing I've ever backed on Kickstarter.

edit: In the last 30 minutes I've had the Crowfall KS open, they've raised more money than ToA has total.

I have to say it does look like a pretty solid thing to back on KS. The 30 dollar pledge is prolly the safer bet as it'll get you in a beta and a digital copy of the game without going full crazy on a pledge.

Edit: Though the reason I don't pledge to KS of anything is just I need to see more. As people have said in the Crowfall thread, there isn't anything shown of gameplay yet and I think the overall amount they are seeking seems low for a MMO. But this project looks like a safer KS than a fair amount of other games that show up on KS these days.

[dusselldorf]

I have to say it does look like a pretty solid thing to back on KS. The 30 dollar pledge is prolly the safer bet as it'll get you in a beta and a digital copy of the game without going full crazy on a pledge.

Edit: Though the reason I don't pledge to KS of anything is just I need to see more. As people have said in the Crowfall thread, there isn't anything shown of gameplay yet and I think the overall amount they are seeking seems low for a MMO. But this project looks like a safer KS than a fair amount of other games that show up on KS these days.

I never went to kickstarter before the subject of this thread. I went to the crowfall kickstarter and I was very intrigued and impressed. I pledged $30. For that price I get a working copy of the game when it's released. Looks like it's estimated to be December. I like how they have actual gameplay footage and their devlopers have a history in the gaming industry. It looks like it will be an awesome game and I'd easily pay $30 to try it. At the same time, $30 is low enough that if it doesn't work out, I haven't really lost anything worth crying about. For me, this is as much an experiment with the concept of a kickstarter as it is about the game. From what I've seen, I feel pretty confident the game will be released and it will be worth playing. But if it's not, no big deal.

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Heck, the pledges have increased 30k in the last half hour.

[Kyanion]

Well I think it'll be out in Winter of 2016 based on what the KS says, and alpha testing supposedly later this year. So a bit out there still, but not too bad.

[dusselldorf]

Yeah, I was thinking 2015, then I noticed it's 2016 after I typed that. Either way, when it's released I will have forgotten about it and it will be a nice surprise. lol

[Kyanion]

Yeah, I was thinking 2015, then I noticed it's 2016 after I typed that. Either way, when it's released I will have forgotten about it and it will be a nice surprise. lol

haha yeah a nice surprised that will already be paid for. And you get to do Beta if that is your cup of tea.

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Things are getting pretty tense on the ToA forums. The important part is that a lot of these posts are coming from backers, and not backers who only donated a few bucks. Here is a post that highlights a lot of what ToA is doing wrong. I saved the picture in case it gets removed. The most telling thing about the dissatisfaction of some of the long term backers is that Brax and Co. haven't said a thing in a couple days outside making some post about KS being updated. The only member of FC saying anything is one of the newer people and not the ones that need to be talking right now.

[Kelimbror]

Here is a post

If we really stop and think about it, here is a great question that proves how this is not a real game. We all know this just from looking at screenshots and 'demos', but imagine if this question:

Where's the demo reviews by Total Biscuit/Co-Op, The Escapist, Jim Sterling/Jimquisition, etc.?

Actually had an answer...

Can you imagine if this got in the hands of TB or on Jimquisition. It would be decimated for the faux game development it is. I've no doubt they wouldn't call it a scam, but they would be outraged by the cash shop of unity assets sold to 'players' before there is even a playable version of the game. I wouldn't be surprised if they would burn FC to the ground with words.

In fact, why hasn't someone made these people aware of this? It's possible they know and don't want to draw any further attention to it because it's so bad it doesn't even merit the free publicity.

[Taojnhy]

I realize I'm addressing a post from almost a year ago, but it seems pretty relevant in light of the utter lack of attention ToA's KS seems to be getting:

You're making a ton of assumptions of something you know nothing about. We have five people on our social media team that scrubs the internet regarding what people are saying. Hardly a new concept for a company to monitor what is being said about them.

It's a damned shame those -5- social media guys were too busy looking to see who was talking about ToA instead of giving people something positive to talk about, eh?