Entry level hc progression dps req?

[Deleted]

Hello again MMO-Champion, we succesfully killed garrosh last week and would like to know what is the raid dps req to start progressing on heroic bosses?
Currently we have 3 people with 275-250k DPS. However the rest are doing 200k and less. Should we farm normal a bit more or is it fine to jump into heroic?

[Deleted]

Hello again MMO-Champion, we succesfully killed garrosh last week and would like to know what is the raid dps req to start progressing on heroic bosses?
Currently we have 3 people with 275-250k DPS. However the rest are doing 200k and less. Should we farm normal a bit more or is it fine to jump into heroic?

If you can kill Garrosh normal, you can do a couple of the first bosses on HC with the same gear.

[Tennis]

You can do Norushen.

Try Immerseus and Galakras as well.

[moveth]

as far as pure numbers go, the previous posters are correct. With Garrosh Normal numbers you should be okay to do Norushen, Galakras, and Immerseus on Heroic. and once those are down you can move on from there

[Deleted]

Gear is likely not the issue. Scream at your underperforming dps, ridicule them in front of the whole team and threated to kick them from the team FOREVER if they don't get better, and you'll likely see immediate improvement.

[Hyve]

With that DPS Immersus, Protectors and Norushen are all on the table as long as you follow the best tactics to maximise your DPS.

Sha of Pride might be a little more difficult, but doable, Galakras should also be on the table, as well as Iron Juggernaught. I'd skip Shamans, and go straight to Nazgrim.

[Axelond]

I know my old 10 man guild spent more time progressing garrosh nm week 2 than we did killing Immer-Gala HC week 3

Paragons-Garrosh took us 8 days doing 2 days/week


Immerseus 10-man Heroic
Killed Sep 25, 2013 19:33:57 GMT
Recorded Guild Item Level: 551.56 (10-man)

Galakras 10-man Heroic
Killed Oct 2, 2013 21:12:46 GMT
Recorded Guild Item Level: 554.35 (10-man)

Also doing 2 days/week

[moveth]

Ah yes. I completely forgot about Protectors and Nazgrim, those 2 are probably very doable with your numbers. Juggernaut is doable if you have very solid healers, as he isn't much of a DPS check.

[Deleted]

Immerseus 10-man Heroic
Killed Sep 25, 2013 19:33:57 GMT
Recorded Guild Item Level: 551.56 (10-man)

Galakras 10-man Heroic
Killed Oct 2, 2013 21:12:46 GMT
Recorded Guild Item Level: 554.35 (10-man)

We had similar numbers on our first kills. Malkorok was the first one we could not do with sub 560 ilvl average.

[CandyCotton Marshmallows]

Gear is likely not the issue. Scream at your underperforming dps, ridicule them in front of the whole team and threated to kick them from the team FOREVER if they don't get better, and you'll likely see immediate improvement.

This is not how every guild runs, nor should many even attempt to. This is one of the problems with the community. This game isn't only about progression, but social aspects like teamwork and group play. Some actually play with friends and family and are ok with slower progression. This poster wasn't asking for the fastest way to progress through heroics, but what the requirements are for their group to start attempting some.

See, after years of playing and experiencing a lot of different guilds and progression levels; I'd rather have nice people that suck, than people like you that think being a dick solves everything.

the most fun I had was my first guild who got stuck on easy stuff; whom I left for a guild that was two tiers ahead, clearing shit, had high turnover, and was an overall more miserable experience. It was much more enjoyable to dedicate myself to a guild that was full of people who respected and liked each other, even wiping on something you shouldn't and get into well organized pugs (back when people remembered a good player to reinvite the following lockout - stronger server communities) to clear current content.

A guild that is run the way you say, never works well in long term. It breeds animosity and stress. If I let you raid lead in my guild and found out you treated people like that, you would get suspended and next time kicked from guild. You can definitely progress well without that attitude, if that is what the particular raid group is about. I've found it is good to have a progression group or two and a few other groups that are more relaxed.

You set your expectations for the progression group(s) and you go through procedures if they are failing (analyzing fights, strats, logs, etc and discuss) or start sitting out if they are late, afk, no show until you remove them from the group. Some people won't cut it; but the relaxed groups (and pugs) is where you scout for talent for your progressive groups. No need for name and shaming. You talk in private, with other officers, class leaders at times ... but you don't bitch, scream, insult, degrade any member of your team in front of the whole raid group, nor do you allow anyone in your raid group to make snide comments. It is entirely counter-productive. If they have helpful, constructive advice, that is allowed, but not 'you suck, diaf', that will get you kicked after a few warnings as well.


The OP got the answer they needed; they are good enough to start making attempts on heroics. I'd suggest setting a limit of attempts on each boss at first. Let them get a feel for it; then analyze the logs on the attempts afterwards for the following week so you can make stronger attempts and try to guide and correct issues you see (if you get close, go for it though!). It sounds like you have a more friendly group, and it is good to keep it that way

[Jyggalag]

OP can you provide a breakdown of the ilvl of your group and class composition?
What classes are doing less than 200k? Have they got the legendary cloak yet?
Have you any logs from previous raids?

[Deja Thoris]

Gear is likely not the issue. Scream at your underperforming dps, ridicule them in front of the whole team and threated to kick them from the team FOREVER if they don't get better, and you'll likely see immediate improvement.

Some guilds recruit people older than 12. You wouldn't be welcome in our guild.

[Temp name]

Gear is likely not the issue. Scream at your underperforming dps, ridicule them in front of the whole team and threated to kick them from the team FOREVER if they don't get better, and you'll likely see immediate improvement.

Or the entire team will leave because you're immature. In most guilds I've been, the person who've done that has been immediately kicked. If you want people to actually improve, pull them aside outside of raids, tell them you think they can do better and perhaps direct them to somewhere they can learn if they don't know a website.

[Deleted]

OP can you provide a breakdown of the ilvl of your group and class composition?
What classes are doing less than 200k? Have they got the legendary cloak yet?
Have you any logs from previous raids?

Yeah sure, i do have logs, but theyre off shamans where we kept wiping for some reason :|

Our comp is:
BDK(550 no cloak) & Prot Warr(565 with cloak)
Disc/holy(555 with cloak) & Rdruid( 559 with cloak)

Dlock(me)(556 cloak), Elemental 560 with cloak, Shadow 550 with cloak, Rogue x2 both 555 and cloaks and Boomy 565, cloak, BiS 4/4 trinkets

Our Spriest doing 195k on Jugg, And both rogues cant even hit 180k on any boss but malk cause they just sit on boss there, the tank thats not tanking doing puddles in melee
We had a 570 frost dk aswell, but he decided to ditch us for 10hc guild

Also i'd like to point out that the ones with higher numbers were also a core of my 10m team back in cata and start of MoP where we achieved 8/8 HC DS pre nerf and 6/16 HC T14. I dont want to bash our less skilled players cause theyre real life friends of ours who just recently started with the game.

[Deleted]

The fights are completely linear (maybe bar shamans nazgrim order)

People telling you to skip bosses are just messing with your progress.

After killing gary normal you should have no issue with immerseus, protectors and norushen. It is feasible that you could do galakras but the healing requirement in the last phase can get pretty fucking dicey at that gear level.

Just do the bosses in order there's no real reason not to. Not sure if you're 10 or 25 but I doubt it makes a massive difference, maybe galakras is more of an option there as dropping a dps for a healer is much more viable.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah yes. I completely forgot about Protectors and Nazgrim, those 2 are probably very doable with your numbers. Juggernaut is doable if you have very solid healers, as he isn't much of a DPS check.

If youre doing the knockback strat then he most definitely IS a dps check.

[Deleted]

If you can kill Garrosh normal, you can do a couple of the first bosses on HC with the same gear.

This really. Your greater challenge will be dealing with the increased number and severity of mechanics (and people with one eye on summer slack), rather than dps output for now.

[LaplaceNoMa]

I'm surprised to see Protectors and Immersius mentioned in 10-man. Those 2 are 'harder' heroics, actually.

The easiest 3 heroics in 10-man are Norushen, Galakras and Nazgrim. After these 3 you can move on to Immersius, Protectors, Sha and Juggernaut. Shamans are probably the hardest out of the first 8, on par with Malkorok actually. Spoils are much easier than Malkorok but probably shouldn't be attempted before you have at least 8 heroics on farm. Thok depends on your raid composition, could be as easy as Norushen and as hard as Malkorok.

The last 3 heroics are the only 'real' heroics this tier with difficulty suddenly jumping to a much higher level.

[Jyggalag]

Our comp is:
BDK(550 no cloak) & Prot Warr(565 with cloak)
Disc/holy(555 with cloak) & Rdruid( 559 with cloak)

Dlock(me)(556 cloak), Elemental 560 with cloak, Shadow 550 with cloak, Rogue x2 both 555 and cloaks and Boomy 565, cloak, BiS 4/4 trinkets

IMO you've got a pretty decent setup. Having said that you do miss both crit and physical vulnerability. If your boomkin was open to going feral you'd notice a big difference once he/she geared up.
Another thing I would suggest is getting a hunter or plate dps instead of one of the rogues. ATM you're not utilizing any agility mail or strength plate/weapon/trinket drops, and with bad RNG could slow you down in terms of gearing.
A hunter could also offer crit/physical vulnerability.

Our Spriest doing 195k on Jugg, And both rogues cant even hit 180k on any boss but malk cause they just sit on boss there, the tank thats not tanking doing puddles in melee
We had a 570 frost dk aswell, but he decided to ditch us for 10hc guild

Shadow Priests aren't in a great place compared to other classes this tier and while there's room for improvement, the overall dps should still be enough to land a few kills on heroic. Educate yourself on some of the under-performing player's classes and don't be afraid to offer them advice. If people don't understand what they're doing wrong how can they improve?

Also i'd like to point out that the ones with higher numbers were also a core of my 10m team back in cata and start of MoP where we achieved 8/8 HC DS pre nerf and 6/16 HC T14. I dont want to bash our less skilled players cause theyre real life friends of ours who just recently started with the game.

Well there you go. Seems to me you've got plenty of decent players who could easily take on some of the initial heroic boss mechanics while the rest improve. IMO get stuck in and don't be afraid of a few wipes. The new players will soon adapt to the change in difficulty with the right guidance. As others have stated, swap between heroic and normal mode to kill the easier heroic bosses first then try some of the more difficult ones.

[Deleted]

IMO you've got a pretty decent setup. Having said that you do miss both crit and physical vulnerability. If your boomkin was open to going feral you'd notice a big difference once he/she geared up.
Another thing I would suggest is getting a hunter or plate dps instead of one of the rogues. ATM you're not utilizing any agility mail or strength plate/weapon/trinket drops, and with bad RNG could slow you down in terms of gearing.

Shadow Priests aren't in a great place compared to other classes this tier and while there's room for improvement, the overall dps should still be enough to land a few kills on heroic. Educate yourself on some of the under-performing player's classes and don't be afraid to offer them advice. If people don't understand what they're doing wrong how can they improve?



Well there you go. Seems to me you've got plenty of decent players who could easily take on some of the initial heroic boss mechanics while the rest improve. IMO get stuck in and don't be afraid of a few wipes. The new players will soon adapt to the change in difficulty with the right guidance. As others have stated, swap between heroic and normal mode to kill the easier heroic bosses first then try some of the more difficult ones.

Sadly, my server is bad enough to have not only a big Alliance to horde ratio( and we are horde), but also 90% of our realm are not even interested in PvE, which makes it so hard to recruit and swap players around

[Deleted]

I don't understand the progression order most seem to advise:
We killed the heroic bosses exacly in order, and felt a fairly linear increase in difficulty.
Well, maybe Nourshen is a little bit easier then protectors and more on par with immerseus, and galakras a little easier then sha, but the differences are very minor.
Just kill them one for one, it sucks anyway if you beat an supposedly easier boss and have to stop for the week because the next one in order is already dead in normal.
DPS below 250k on fights without significant downtime does not belong in to heroic normally, though it's quite ok with the low gear level of your group.
Only thing strange is rogues doing low dps, there's little reason for a rogue not to compete with players of similar ilvl.