“To My Fellow Filthy Rich Americans: The Pitchforks Are Coming"

[Rendia]

You should be leveraging that minimum wage increase into a wage increase for yourself. If you were worth $X more than minimum wage before the bump, you should be worth that after.

If competition is too fierce for you to ask for that without getting fired/laughed out of the office, then you've discovered why minimum wage laws are important to begin with.

There is no way I can negotiate with Walmart. I would be laughed at just for attempting to bring it up. I already know that minimum wage laws are necessary and far too low to be as effective as they need to be.

I am not terribly worried about it, I am pursuing degrees in both Computer Science and Mathematics. I will have my Associates Degree in a year, and plan to continue to further my education while using that degree.

[Endus]

Endus my almost-border brother....I'm sure you're aware of the issue of inequality and contempt for wage increases in the U.S. How is Canada in this regard? I know Canada has some socialistic aspects built-in like the healthcare system, but on the other hand Canada is similar to the U.S. with its economy. Are the same shit-storms brought up in politics as in the U.S.?

They really aren't. Canada's minimum wage went through pretty much the same kind of correction we're talking about for the US, last decade, and our economy got stronger. Minimum wage is at $10 or more everywhere but Alberta ($11 in Ontario), and even Alberta's passing that mark in September.

Fast food joints and Wal-mart are both totally profitable and doing just fine. The doom-and-gloom about the consequences is basically Chicken Little alarmism, nothing more.

There is no way I can negotiate with Walmart. I would be laughed at just for attempting to bring it up. I already know that minimum wage laws are necessary and far too low to be as effective as they need to be.

Yeah. I'm just saying; that's the point. Employers have most of the cards. The reality is wages do adapt, though not necessarily instantaneously. Otherwise, minimum wage would "creep" and more and more positions would be minimum-wage positions, over time. That doesn't happen, and it's not like minimum wage increases are an oddity; the US has seen an increase about twice a decade since the minimum wage was instituted; the recent dearth of updates is the exception, not the rule.

[Xeones]

Minimum Wage went up in California less than a week ago by $1 to $9. I make a few dollars more an hour than minimum wage, and I don't get a cost of living increase. However, I also work for Walmart, so there is that.

I'm honestly not sure what point you're trying to make here.

[Rendia]

Yeah. I'm just saying; that's the point. Employers have most of the cards. The reality is wages do adapt, though not necessarily instantaneously. Otherwise, minimum wage would "creep" and more and more positions would be minimum-wage positions, over time. That doesn't happen, and it's not like minimum wage increases are an oddity; the US has seen an increase about twice a decade since the minimum wage was instituted; the recent dearth of updates is the exception, not the rule.

I know that, I'm just saying that my last 2 years worth of "raises" are completely negated now. Basically, I make less money now than I did a week ago, relatively speaking. And because the employer holds all of the power, I have less than a 0% chance to do anything about it. Again, of fucking well. I know that I work for one of the worst, if not the worst, offenders of exploitation of the common workers in the United States. I'll get over it and get a better job. That isn't the point, however. I'm more mad that this affects others that I work with. Many of them have no other options, and only have the job because they are supplementing their Social Security or other retirement.

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I'm honestly not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Huh?

You said...

How can people even think things like this?

Raising minimum wage effects all near minimum wage jobs. Practically every hourly job will see some sort of bump as a result.

Raising the minimum wage did not affect my near minimum wage job, unless by "affect" you mean that I make relatively less money now. So nope, no bump here.

That is the point I am trying to make. Was it that difficult?

[Endus]

I know that, I'm just saying that my last 2 years worth of "raises" are completely negated now. Basically, I make less money now than I did a week ago, relatively speaking.

In theory, if you're making over minimum wage, you're negotiating better pay for yourself. The issue with the minimum wage is that it isn't negotiated; they just can't pay you any less. Your wage isn't actually relative to the minimum wage, in theory; it's whatever you've established the value of your own labor to be.

This is obviously not quite as true if you're making a couple of bucks over minimum, as compared to a middle-class salary that works out to $25/hour or more, but that's why those higher salaries often have mandated cost-of-living increases annually, or the like; if you've been getting your cost-of-living increase for the last 10 years, that puts you ahead, and the minimum wage boost is those workers catching up, rather than you making less than you're worth.

[jakeic]

Raising the minimum wage did not affect my near minimum wage job, unless by "affect" you mean that I make relatively less money now. So nope, no bump here.

then get a different job?

[Captain N]

then get a different job?

Let me handle the rest of this conversation:

Us: There are not enough jobs out there to just go get another one.

You: Then go to school and get an education

Us: Going to school costs money. How do you afford to go to school if you're working a shitty job?

You: Not the Corporations fault they're working a job designed for teenagers.

Conversation proceeds to go onto something where the The same posters repeat the same proof as to why its beneficial for the Company to fix the issue than telling the employee he's the problem.

[jakeic]

Let me handle the rest of this conversation:

Us: There are not enough jobs out there to just go get another one.

You: Then go to school and get an education

Us: Going to school costs money. How do you afford to go to school if you're working a shitty job?

You: Not the Corporations fault they're working a job designed for teenagers.

Conversation proceeds to go onto something where the The same posters repeat the same proof as to why its beneficial for the Company to fix the issue than telling the employee he's the problem.

my point was that if his near minimum wage job didn't receive a bump in pay because of the wage increase of minimum wage, that there would be more jobs at that level, making his job less valuable to him, because he could get any job at minimum wage.

[Rendia]

then get a different job?

Read my other posts? Also, was talking about something specific to someone else.

[Captain N]

my point was that if his near minimum wage job didn't receive a bump in pay because of the wage increase of minimum wage, that there would be more jobs at that level, making his job less valuable to him, because he could get any job at minimum wage.

In that case my apologies with jumping the gun. Getting way to used to the General Conservative Crowd using the Find Better Work Argument as a defense to keep people at slave wages. Trading his current minimum wage job at Wal-Mart for something where he most likely could get the extra buck an hour I'd definitely agree with.

[Paranoid Android]

Conservative Excuses:

1. Worker is Lazy - Despite comitting to 50+ hours weekly in a menial job.

2. Worker is Unskilled - Despite worker possessing a college degree and/or a valuable trade skill in a field that is currently not taking entry level employees

3. Worker is Entitled - Despite not having access to a "Golden Parachute" if their place of business falls apart.

4. Worker is Greedy - Asking for a wage that doesn't require them to be on Federal Assistance and to have decent healthcare coverage.

5. Worker told to Work Elsewhere - Despite asking for the basics of life is told it's their fault if they can't do better in life.


Did I miss any?

6. Worker should just find a better job - Despite all our good manufacturing jobs being sent overseas and yes automation.

7 Unions are killing jobs - Despite Union membership at an all time low and stats showing people in unions make higher wages. Again unions are not perfect.

8. Poor people should just go to school - Despite college tuition rising and people becoming more in debt for middle class. So how are poor people suppose to afford college when middle class cannot?

[breadisfunny]

excuses cause poverty which is what this entire argument is about

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your argument doesnt sound intelligent, it sounds greedy

the exact same thing could be said of your argument.
so where does that leave us?