Maining a Tank for WoD Raiding - Should I be working toward more Tank Alts

[Radio]

It can help with flexibility but I like others think it's more important to experience all of the other roles (melee DPS, ranged DPS, healing) than it is to have multiple tanks. I've had max level geared tanks available in Wrath, Cata and MoP, but only one tank toon per expansion, even maining tank in MoP without an additional tank alt.

I guess the main benefit of having a second tank is the ability to do what people are used to you doing (tanking) in alt-runs and stuff as well. People tend to love people who are willing to tank and I know that my most popular characters have always been my tanks in every expansion.

[psyquest]

I have been a raid leader for a number of years and we always clean a tiers in heroic before it is nerfed.

I use a very simple rule and it seems to have worked so far:

take the top 3 guilds, see what main tanks they are using all the times (some guys are running the same tank class for years).

these guilds and tanks usually give feedback to blizzard and blizzard is very much careful about not breaking those tanks.

Run any of those tanks.

example: the MT of paragon have been a druid tanks for a number of years. The MT of method has been a paladin..

cant go wrong with those two classes.

just my two cents.

note: avoid monks, they are new, get too many changes for confort (either OP or crap) and they take too much damage up front before they have their buffs up and running. Stay away from DKs if you do not master the class. There is a massive difference between a good DK and a master of the class.

[DemoBytom]

note: avoid monks, they are new, get too many changes for confort (either OP or crap) and they take too much damage up front before they have their buffs up and running. Stay away from DKs if you do not master the class. There is a massive difference between a good DK and a master of the class.

Brewmasters had least changes from all 3 monk spec throughout the expansion and they were all just QoL changes, rather than real gameplay ones.
After whole expansion it's fairly known how to play them as well.. It's like saying that DKs were still a new class in Cataclysm..
"getting buffs up and running" is literally 2 GCDs.. KS>BoK.. Done.. I'm fairly sure that there's hardly anything that can kill you within first two GCDs of the boss fight.

I might be wrong, but through SoO Blood Legion used monk (Riggimonk) on all first kill on heroic. Same with Midwinter, no 1 alliance guild, that was tanked by Daught..

[Retsef]

Sco from Method mains a warrior, as do I.

I'm not super concerned about my class getting hit with a nerfbat. That's not the issue.

I have seriously considered rolling a Paladin a few times due to the awesome survivability, but as yet not dangled my toes any further.




As for the previous comment about "Realm Firsts" - I'm on a merged realm. My home realm has 0 14/14H guilds on 10 or 25.
My guild's realm has 1 25m and 2 or 3 10m. My guild was realm 3rd (realm 2 10m) 14/14H and after going 25m 4 resets ago is 12/14H and equal 2nd on the 25m ladder.
So by many definitions - "not hardcore" fits.

[RuneeBH]

Talking strictly on odds and what is probably the best decision for you - Guardian / Prot Warr or Pala. Its going to be a bit different with raid cds going away/not being nearly as strong as they were. So it is kind of about what you're best at and at least having one option ready in case the class you go with ends up being no good. I have a really good feeling about Guardians coming up. Probably going to be the first char I level in WoD, and if not first then definitely second. (Coming from an original Blood DK and switch-over to Monk in ToT until now).

[psyquest]

Brewmasters had least changes from all 3 monk spec throughout the expansion and they were all just QoL changes, rather than real gameplay ones.
After whole expansion it's fairly known how to play them as well.. It's like saying that DKs were still a new class in Cataclysm..
"getting buffs up and running" is literally 2 GCDs.. KS>BoK.. Done.. I'm fairly sure that there's hardly anything that can kill you within first two GCDs of the boss fight.

I might be wrong, but through SoO Blood Legion used monk (Riggimonk) on all first kill on heroic. Same with Midwinter, no 1 alliance guild, that was tanked by Daught..

Sorry I have been looking at the top EU guilds. Historically the top guilds had Method and Paragon so I tend to check those and Blood legion. Concerning Monk, they have had many changes, not just QOL changes. They have had up and downs during all tiers and they have not been consistent. They were also used in gimmicky fights. Concerning their damage and buff that have to be up: try getting a monk tank to pull garosh heroic with no CD up and check the damage on pull... insane

I would go: druid / paladin / warrior for a 20 man guild.

[Gliff]

My fellow tank and I are each gonna have 2 tanks ready to go the first week of raiding. I'm not sure how much effort I will put into keeping 2 geared throughout the whole expansion but with the 1 week before raids there is no reason to get 2 ready.

[Khorm]

I have been a raid leader for a number of years and we always clean a tiers in heroic before it is nerfed.

I use a very simple rule and it seems to have worked so far:

take the top 3 guilds, see what main tanks they are using all the times (some guys are running the same tank class for years).

these guilds and tanks usually give feedback to blizzard and blizzard is very much careful about not breaking those tanks.

Run any of those tanks.

example: the MT of paragon have been a druid tanks for a number of years. The MT of method has been a paladin..

cant go wrong with those two classes.

just my two cents.

note: avoid monks, they are new, get too many changes for confort (either OP or crap) and they take too much damage up front before they have their buffs up and running. Stay away from DKs if you do not master the class. There is a massive difference between a good DK and a master of the class.

Avoid this raid leader.

[MrKnubbles]

Usually, players in top guilds have all specs maxed and often most or all classes maxed. It makes sense to have all specs covered for alt runs and to have other geared specs/classes when someone in the main raid can't make it and you have to adjust your comp. Personally, I only play tanks anymore. Pally will always be my main but, like you said, I also have all other tank classes maxed.

I think it's important to learn what your off tank is capable of doing with the tools they have.

[Deleted]

Playing other classes and roles helped me understand what they were experiencing in raids. What their hardships were and most importantly why. This way i feel i can be more useful for the raid team as i can help with those situations. Point of view thing.

I wasn't top guild or anything like that but i still had tanks, healers and dps, both melee and ranged.

[psyquest]

Avoid this raid leader.

You sir are just a troll and your post is not constructive.

To the subject at hand, my logic is sound: top guilds have the very best players there is in the entire world. These players tend to go for the best performing classes. These players do not settle for second best, they play to be the best. The consquence of this is that these type of players are very careful in choosing the best performing classes for every task. As such if you look at what these guilds choose in terms of classes for tanking, you are almost certain not to go wrong.

Blizzard might state that all tanks are equal but the truth is some encounters can be a wall unless you have certains classes during progress. (emphasised for people with reading issues).

If you are not playing for progress ANY tank will do that you enjoy. If you are playing for progress, you can prepare 2 tanks from the above selection.

[Retsef]

@psyquest: Thanks for your thoughts. I will have a Warrior ready as my main and preferred, and will probably go paladin for #2, learning it properly once we get into SoO farm mode.
I do NOT however agree that just because the top 4 guilds use certain tanks that one should main-swap to them - DKs aren't the best ATM but are still tanking 14/14H progression. Blizz are interested in not screwing any class, but there's too many variables for them not to get it wrong some of the time.

As for the rest of you - thanks for your thoughts. I have started levelling a paladin as prot, and so far am enjoying the idea that I CAN NEVER DIE with so many damn healing spells. Something that I didn't really have with my warrior on the way up. I'm still not even into the 30's yet, but yeah, its quite playable.
I hope to get one of the two to 100 prior to the start of the raid week, my first xpac rush level (MoP baby) and Family > Work > WoW unfortunately. I forsee some sleepless nights that's for sure.

[irdaq]

1 block and 1 non block tank. always. trust me

[calinass]

1 block and 1 non block tank. always. trust me

DK for me, what should my block tank be? warrior?

[Retsef]

1 block and 1 non block tank. always. trust me

Why do you say that?

[Deleted]

So no, I'm not hardcore, not ever going to be.

Non hardcore people don't even think about things like this, champ.

[psyquest]

DK for me, what should my block tank be? warrior?

DK will be very good. I saw druids as well and must say I am very impressed. Try druid on beta, you will be mind blown, very nicely designed.

[Arcanimus]

Why do you say that?

Its hard to qualify, but generally, non-block tanks do better on physical fights, whereas block tanks do better on magical fights. Strange, I know, but that's how it works. Quick and dirty explanation:
Savage Defense does not work for Magic effects, leaving the druid to tank all that damage to the face. when barkskin is down. This leaves them with only Survival Instincts and Pulverize or Bristling Fur(in WoD)
Stagger does not work on Magic effects (until the coming lvl 100 talent Soul Dance, and thats only 30% of the amount.) leaving monks with only Guard and Diffuse Magic.
Blood Shield is physical damage only. Antimagic Shell does have *some* use but its short duration limits that. Rune Tap does work for Magical damage thus far, but beta is beta.

On the flip side:
Shield of the Righteous DOES work on Magic damage. They can unglyph Divine Protection for 40% magic reduction, or leave it glyphed for 20% magic 20% physical.
Shield Barrier is a flat absorb with no cooldown. Additionally, Spell Reflection works on several tank-targeted spells.

I think the best classes to have for tank are Monk, Warrior, and DK.

Warrior is a better general purpose tank.
Monk is a more specialized mitigation tank for physical fights.
DK has higher self-sustain than other tanks, making them more valuable for underhealing or progression.

[nightfalls]

Shield of the Righteous DOES work on Magic damage.

Um, no?

Shield Barrier is a flat absorb with no cooldown.

Right and most tanks have analogous abilities: Word of Glory, Frenzied Regen, Death Strike (the healing, which does increase if you take magic damage). Only Guard has the CD attached but if glyphed also absorbs more magic damage. For Warlords as you mentioned Monks can talent into Stagger for Magic.

You can't really say "this tank is better at X" without ability tuning, since all tanks have abilities to handle physical and magic damage, the only difference being how they are tuned.

[Retsef]

Even though I main a warrior I wonder if the more raid-utility type tanks might be better for the early push into mythic, being able to off-heal when I'm not on the boss etc. Seems to me valuable anyway.

I dunno, never tanked on anything else and have mainly tanked alongside paladins and DKs, with a little of the other two more recently.
*note I am aware of the warrior's toolkit in MoP but many of those cool things are going away in WoD for prot (banners/rally)