Female Draenei Model: Old vs. New

[Deleted]

(I know there is already a thread about the new Draenei models, but this is a rather specific issue that I feel should be discussed separately. Also, my post is quite expansive...)

First off, I am fully aware that the animations currently in the beta aren't necessarily final. That said, I worry that some of the issues I have with the new female Draenei model may not be solvable by changing animations, but rather would require modification of the model itself. I am far from being an expert in these things, but to me, it seems better to be safe than sorry in this matter.

I also have to mention that I do not, by any means, hate the new model - far from it, I like it quite a bit. I just feel that it could easily be even better, as in better preserving the aesthetic of the original model (which is the goal of the model revamp, according to Blizzard themselves).

Anyway, lets get comparin', shall we?



What you have the pleasure to see above are, of course, screenshots of the female Draenei models currently active in the beta. It's the exact same area of the screen, same perspective, zoom level etc. both times, the only difference is the "show new character models" option being enabled to the left, and disabled to the right. Also, please disregard the difference in hair colour, or the glitched eyes on the old model, as those are just bugs the beta currently suffers from.

Now, the most obvious diffrences between the two are of course polygon count and texture quality, which are not problematic to any sane person and in no need of discussion. The facial geometry is also quite a bit different, and some people have already taken offense to that, but I assume it would simply be impossible to replicate the old, minimalistic style while also not looking dated (plus, I actually like the new faces, apart from the seemingly unfinished eyes).

Observant people (or those reading a lot of forum posts) may notice little details, like missing hair above the hooves on the new model, or fewer facial tentacles. Those can probably be fixed relativly easily (just like the missing fangs, not visible here), and even if they are not, I personally could stomach that, because it really does not affect the overall aesthetic of the character too much.

The main issue I have with the new model lies in it's build and pose.

As Blizzard have previously aknowledged themselves, the pose is very important to the female Draenei's unique look, which I feel the new model does not replicate appropriately (yet, hopefully). But let's get down to the details here: Starting off with the legs, the new model's ones are slightly more angled/less upright than the old model's. That would probably be fine in and of itself, although it reduces the overall model's height a little. The old model's thigh seems to reach quite a bit higher, which is due to the more upright legs, but the different style of the slip accentuates it further. Everything mostly fine, so far. Next, though, things get interesting, I have overlayed one screenshot over the other for demonstration purposes:



As you can see, the old model's waist/midsection curves forward quite a bit more than the new one's, which makes a little dent, and then curves only very slightly in comparison. Also, the old model's ribcage seems to expand a litte more further up, and then slope back rather quickly, where as the new model's ribcage begins to slope back way further down, and seems smaller overall. Those two differences, the curve of the spine, if you will, and the size and shape of the ribcage, are the main problem, as they change the overall pose, and thus the model's aesthetic. A lot.

The blended screenshots above also show that, in comparison to the old model, the new model's neck and head are situated quite a bit further back, which looks odd to me, as if she is constantly leaning back a little. It would probably not be necessary to move them as far forward as the old model's, just a little bit. If the shoulders would have to tilt back a little more as well (as they do on the old model), I can't say for certain. It's also worth noting that the new model's head is actually upright, instead of tilted slightly forward (I really like that, if only because it will potentially make a lot of helmets fit better ).

Let's have a final look at the two models, this time from the front (and slightly angled, for better demonstration of the effects described):



The "leaning back"-effect on the new model is visible here, as well, even the texture seems to be skewed back a litte bit (though that might very well be me going crazy at this point). The old model's larger, more forward-curved ribcage pushes the breast higher up and further out (it's not actually wider, though it may seem to be). This is also the main reason the old model gives the impression of having a slightly larger upper body overall, though it does not actually have it, by most of the applicable measures.


Conclusion

As I have already elaborated, to preserve the pose of the original female Draenei model, and thus it's unique aesthetic, I think that the curve of the spine, as well as the size and shape of the ribcage, and lastly the position of neck and head, need to be adjusted on the new model. It is not at all my intention to "know better than Blizzard", "tell the artist what to do" or whatever, I just feel that Blizzards stated goal has not quite been met with the new female Draenei model, and want to provide feedback in the most accurate and useful way possible. Also, I have seen a lot of positive reactions to the new model already, particularly on these forums, and I fear and hope at the same time that you guys might not be getting the full picture.

At the very least, I seem to not be completely alone with my concerns, as there is a similar complaint about the new model on the EU beta forums (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/11267996933). I will repost this there as well, though, you know, it's the EU forums. I don't have access to the US forums, sadly.

It's probably already obvious to most people reading this, but I love Draenei above all the other races in WoW, and most of the characters I played since BC are of that race. Upon first seeing the new model "in action" in the beta, it felt distinctly not Draenei enough to me, more like my character suddenly had an elven torso, if that makes sense. I have since thought quite a bit about where that impression comes from, and I hope this post conveys my conclusions in a manner both precise and understandable.


TL;DR: In order to preserve the Draenei female's unique aesthetic, their new model's spinal curve, size and shape of ribcage, and position of neck/head needs to be adjusted to match the old model more closely. Other than that, great work Blizz, thanks


P.S.: As you have probably figured out by now, English is not my first language, so if I did use weird/wrong terms in some cases, I apologise in advance and hope you understood me anyway

P.P.S.: Feel free to link and/or repost this anywhere you feel appropriate

[Deleted]

I just LOVE the new draenei model!

[Deleted]

Now that was predictable

[rpdrichard]

Personally I think it has a lot of room for improvement on the new one, I get they try to keep the feeling of the old ones but some things desperately need to be changed instead of just poly count updated, male draenei are on dire need of change, while the females could use only some tweaks they look good overall

[Wyrt]

I like the new model better except for the massive eyes. It's not perfect and still needs some work done, but overall it's better.

Was never a fan of the hoof "hair" so I'm glad that's gone.

[Putin-Chan]

I am okay with both but i like how the new model looks less stiff and its
more natural looking

[Deleted]

I like the new model better except for the massive eyes. It's not perfect and still needs some work done, but overall it's better.

I'm not saying the old model is better, far from it. But the new model could (and, in my opinion, should) be more faithful to the old one, as in, "capturing the feel of it", you know?

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Now Draenei ass is phat.

That's all that matters.

[derpkitteh]

i like how her back is less crooked.

[Wyrt]

I'm not saying the old model is better, far from it. But the new model could (and, in my opinion, should) be more faithful to the old one, as in, "capturing the feel of it", you know?

The legs are less straight yes, but the panties also play a part in making the old model legs look longer.

Stomach is about the same length, new model is a bit thicker(which is fine by me).

I don't mind the curve being less severe, it looks more natural. The curve is significantly smoother on the new one.

It's not 100% the same as the old one, but I think it looks better for those minor changes.

[Nahela]

Honestly I would be incredibly disappointed if they used the old skeletal structure. The new model is way better in creating what Draenei actually should be and correcting some serious flaws in the old model.

So no, it's not exactly the same, but it shouldn't be either. I really hope they don't cave in to a vocal minority complaining there's no "waggle" or that she isn't shaped like a C anymore, as so far the new model is fantastic.

[Deleted]

I don't mind the curve being less severe, it looks more natural.

It does, yes - more natural, as in, more humanlike. Except that's exactly what I hoped would not happen

Honestly I would be incredibly disappointed if they used the old skeletal structure. The new model is way better in creating what Draenei actually should be and correcting some serious flaws in the old model.

So no, it's not exactly the same, but it shouldn't be either. I really hope they don't cave in to a vocal minority complaining there's no "waggle" or that she isn't shaped like a C anymore, as so far the new model is fantastic.

The aim of the revamp is to update models graphically while preserving the original aesthetic, no? What you call "serious flaws" was part of their charme for other people.

They don't need to use the exact same skeletal structure or anything, but a bit of adjustment in that direction would be justified, in my opinion.

And we have already been all but promised a return of "the waggle" anyway

[Calamari]

Well I do understand your concern with "capturing the feel" of the old model more faithfully, have the same problem when playing the new night elf females on beta (they took some pretty fricking unecessary artistic liberties and completely changed idle animation and run animation..)

Haven't played with a female draenei character on beta yet, but from what I can tell it looks like they tuned down the bounciness in her step for the newer model, which was what I liked most about the original draenei females. :C

[Deleted]

Haven't played with a female draenei character on beta yet, but from what I can tell it looks like they tuned down the bounciness in her step for the newer model, which was what I liked most about the original draenei females. :C

I noticed the lack of bounciness as well. I do have hopes for that, however, since they stated specifically that many animations are not yet final.

[Amozabael]

It does, yes - more natural, as in, more humanlike. Except that's exactly what I hoped would not happen


The aim of the revamp is to update models graphically while preserving the original aesthetic, no? What you call "serious flaws" was part of their charme for other people.

They don't need to use the exact same skeletal structure or anything, but a bit of adjustment in that direction would be justified, in my opinion.

And we have already been all but promised a return of "the waggle" anyway

No. "More natural" as in, more natural. A seven foot tall blue, hooved, horned woman with glowing eyes and a tail will never look human like, whether they've hired a chiropractor for their back pain or not, so don't worry too much about that.

Also, the waggle is absolutely still there, it's just been toned down a little.

Honestly, to me, I see nothing but positive changes made to the female Draenei.

[Deleted]

I kind of like that new pose... Draenei female is the best and most important race/gender combo for me, but only thing i never liked was the curve of spine that made their stomach look "stretched" from side. New model looks much more "natural". Legs itself are the most critical part imo and they look good. (thank god their hooves are still sharp). Also seems their shoulders are not that much bend backwards now. Though as beta, they could change also. Hopefully shoulder armors will not be bend backwards, as currently many armor will clip themselves on backside.

[Malacrass]

I like the new model better except for the massive eyes. It's not perfect and still needs some work done, but overall it's better.

Was never a fan of the hoof "hair" so I'm glad that's gone.

Pretty much this. The eyes are way too big.

[Adoxe]

The things you're complaining about are few of the "errors" many people, Blizzard included, have been complaining about for years. They're fixing the errors that they weren't able to with the old technology. The new ones are perfect the way they are, except the fangs but that's obviously gonna change. Also, the old one had weird shoulders, they were way too far back, the shoulder armor would clip through each other and that's one of the things that really pissed me off when playing a Draenei Female (still one of my favorites) so I hope the new one fixes that, hopefully they fix the shoulders, weapon and helm glitch soon so we can compare the differences further. Oh and speaking of weapons I'd love if they would increase the size of their weapons, honestly they feel waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to small for a race like Draenei, especially the Two Handers.

[Every Pwny]

Not really a fan of the new female draenei, although they don't look that bad. The large eyes are the biggest problem, she did seem shorter too. They did pretty much removed the waggle as well which sucks but definitely not my biggest problem with the model. Hopefully they are still going to do a lot of refining on the model, I still like the old one better. But then like human females and night elves I liked the old one better for as well, still hoping they are going to do a ton of work on these models.

[Sugarpuff]

Hmm... her boobs got smaller. Me no like.