Fast-food workers, "We Are Worth More!"

[Mayhem]

The exception that proves the rule is an exception to a rule that gives you the rule without the rule needing to be stated explicitly.

it´s a proverb

[valliant13]

Warren Buffett owns the BNSF Railroad -What does he have to do with Wal-Mart?

He's the highest investor in Walmart....

actually if im not mistaken he bought the company relatively recently.

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Yeah, and I've always said that $15 is a bargaining tactic. You never go in asking for what you'll settle for. I think they're aiming for $11-13 an hour myself.

I'm okay with those numbers. However I don't trust the government to not overdo it just to save a headache(which is settling at $15)

[Gavilrain]

Your reasoning?

That they would terminate you if they had to pay you more money. If you're part of that bare minimum crew your business requires to remain operational and they terminate you due to a wage raise - That place should never have been in business in the first place.

He's the highest investor in Walmart....

actually if im not mistaken he bought the company relatively recently.

He's just added more stock shares to his portfolio. Looks like the Company still belongs to the Walton Spawn.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A4E0ZM20140515

[Chrysia]

He's the highest investor in Walmart....

actually if im not mistaken he bought the company relatively recently.

Not quite, he's the highest investor that isn't a Walton. The Walton's still have controlling interest between them, and I don't see them giving it up any time soon, what with the Hobby Lobby ruling.

[Masark]

Walmart is such a massive employer

Walmart has more money and employees than many nations.

If Walmart was a nation, they would be 142nd by population (2.2 million, behind Jamaica and ahead of Qatar) and 27th by GDP ($476 billion annual revenue, behind Argentina and ahead of Austria). By area (total area of all Walmart stores), they would be a bit larger than the Marshall Islands.

[Chrysia]

Walmart also has the highest rate of employed people with government assistance. They SHOULD give people more money an hour especially considering how much Warren Buffet is worth. However that won't happen. Also they make a lot of money off groceries, do you honestly think Nabisco won't increase the cost of your Oreos?

All Nabisco products are "vendor managed merchandise." Wal-Mart doesn't even pay for them until they sell. The biggest markup you'd probably see from a minimum wage increase would be in the produce section, and produce is already an artificially suppressed item.

[Repefe]

The wages can be rised, I am all for it ... for a better service. Between MC Donald and KFC there is literaly one meal I find good enough for eating. Rest of the stuff is inedible. I think if you can eat a burger at MC Donald without being drunk, you deserve a medal. I can do a real burger with real meat at quarter of the price at home.

So what exactly is the point of going to a professional place that serves food when it's inedible yet much more expensive.

And yeah, you don't go to fast food for a great meal, but I have had great meals at fast foods ... there is this small baguette fast food shop near my appartment where you order what you want in the baguette and it's to die for. Real meat, real veggies, great bread, similar price to what you pay for a fast food at MC or KFC.

So better wages ? No problem ... but for better food. Not for the trash that they serve right now.

[truckboattruck]

remove these jobs and replace with terminals
so they'll stop squeezing and want to go back to work

[bergmann620]

That they would terminate you if they had to pay you more money. If you're part of that bare minimum crew your business requires to remain operational and they terminate you due to a wage raise - That place should never have been in business in the first place.

The business would likely just go under. We don't have a way to increase our margins in the current market- Medicare doesn't care what you pay your employees. We have been trying to build a separate retail store, but building a business like that costs money before it generates any.

[valliant13]

The point is, the Nabisco products would go up. Their factory workers would need raises as well or the factories would close. Less money for their bottom line(their pockets) = raise the price to deal with this or lay off a few to make up the difference. One of those WOULD happen, whether or not Walmart manages the cost of the items or not. It wouldn't be something massive immediately, but there is nothing saving us from what is happening now to happen when everyone is making $15 an hour. IF items would slowly inflate or even stabilize I am absolutely fine with raising the minimum wage to $15. But Corporate America isn't about making sure everyone makes a living wage. It's about the CEO and boards pockets. Anything that will hit them there will result in either increase cost or less people working. Until the government puts safety checks preventing massive inflation and basically telling the corporations to F off and forcing them to make the middle class an entity again this will just come around yet again. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

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The wages can be rised, I am all for it ... for a better service. Between MC Donald and KFC there is literaly one meal I find good enough for eating. Rest of the stuff is inedible. I think if you can eat a burger at MC Donald without being drunk, you deserve a medal. I can do a real burger with real meat at quarter of the price at home.

So what exactly is the point of going to a professional place that serves food when it's inedible yet much more expensive.

And yeah, you don't go to fast food for a great meal, but I have had great meals at fast foods ... there is this small baguette fast food shop near my appartment where you order what you want in the baguette and it's to die for. Real meat, real veggies, great bread, similar price to what you pay for a fast food at MC or KFC.

So better wages ? No problem ... but for better food. Not for the trash that they serve right now.

While you're right....Frozen burgers cost 11 bucks at my local grocery store. The problem isn't that it's cheaper to make your own food, people have just gotten so lay they'd rather go to Mcdonalds than make their own(and much better tasting) burger for overall less money.

However your last point is on point. I dont want the same trash they serve now if they are going to continue to serve the shit they do.

[Chrysia]

The point is, the Nabisco products would go up. Their factory workers would need raises as well or the factories would close. Less money for their bottom line(their pockets) = raise the price to deal with this or lay off a few to make up the difference. One of those WOULD happen, whether or not Walmart manages the cost of the items or not. It wouldn't be something massive immediately, but there is nothing saving us from what is happening now to happen when everyone is making $15 an hour. IF items would slowly inflate or even stabilize I am absolutely fine with raising the minimum wage to $15. But Corporate America isn't about making sure everyone makes a living wage. It's about the CEO and boards pockets. Anything that will hit them there will result in either increase cost or less people working. Until the government puts safety checks preventing massive inflation and basically telling the corporations to F off and forcing them to make the middle class an entity again this will just come around yet again. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

But, once again, the cost increase mathematically can't be equal to the increase in wages, because wages aren't the only cost to a corporation. And prices rise without any wage increase all the time. If wages don't increase in conjunction with rising prices, we lose buying power, demand tanks, and the economy suffers.

[Gavilrain]

The point is, the Nabisco products would go up. Their factory workers would need raises as well or the factories would close. Less money for their bottom line(their pockets) = raise the price to deal with this or lay off a few to make up the difference. One of those WOULD happen, whether or not Walmart manages the cost of the items or not. It wouldn't be something massive immediately, but there is nothing saving us from what is happening now to happen when everyone is making $15 an hour. IF items would slowly inflate or even stabilize I am absolutely fine with raising the minimum wage to $15. But Corporate America isn't about making sure everyone makes a living wage. It's about the CEO and boards pockets. Anything that will hit them there will result in either increase cost or less people working. Until the government puts safety checks preventing massive inflation and basically telling the corporations to F off and forcing them to make the middle class an entity again this will just come around yet again. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

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While you're right....Frozen burgers cost 11 bucks at my local grocery store. The problem isn't that it's cheaper to make your own food, people have just gotten so lay they'd rather go to Mcdonalds than make their own(and much better tasting) burger for overall less money.

However your last point is on point. I dont want the same trash they serve now if they are going to continue to serve the shit they do.

You're moving goal posts - We all agree that any increase to payroll will have an affect on the cost of items. You're off on a tangent that has prices blowing up at astronomic proportions that just are not mathematically possible. Those are Rush Limbaugh talking points and have no basis in real world economics...The cost of items are not going to inflate 70% or more the minute a wage increase goes into effect.

[valliant13]

You're moving goal posts - We all agree that any increase to payroll will have an affect on the cost of items. You're off on a tangent that has prices blowing up at astronomic proportions that just are not mathematically possible. Those are Rush Limbaugh talking points and have no basis in real world economics...The cost of items are not going to inflate 70% or more the minute a wage increase goes into effect.

Did I ever say they would increase dramatically immediately? I think I said the increases would happen but not a lot immediately. Over time there is nothing preventing what's happening right now with minimum wage and inflation from happening again. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

[Chrysia]

Did I ever say they would increase dramatically immediately? I think I said the increases would happen but not a lot immediately. Over time there is nothing preventing what's happening right now with minimum wage and inflation from happening again. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

That's the thing, inflation won't stop. It's economically impossible without crashing the economy. Minimum wage has to be tied to inflation. The fact that it wasn't at the beginning was a grave oversight, and the result of a cocky Congress that assumed they'd retain the power to raise it by legislation indefinitely.

[Mayhem]

Walmart has more money and employees than many nations.

If Walmart was a nation, they would be 142nd by population (2.2 million, behind Jamaica and ahead of Qatar) and 27th by GDP ($476 billion annual revenue, behind Argentina and ahead of Austria). By area (total area of all Walmart stores), they would be a bit larger than the Marshall Islands.

damn it -.-

[valliant13]

But, once again, the cost increase mathematically can't be equal to the increase in wages, because wages aren't the only cost to a corporation. And prices rise without any wage increase all the time. If wages don't increase in conjunction with rising prices, we lose buying power, demand tanks, and the economy suffers.

The more money you can put into the economy the better. I get that, more people making livable wages is fine. Increases would be a couple bucks here and there on everything. That's right now. Do you honestly believe it would stay relative to minimum wage for the long haul? If you don't think what is going on right now with the minimum wage issues won't come back in this country especially then you're missing the point entirely. I dont care about the small changes that will happen right away that we are all agreeing on. My point is there is NOTHING stopping this from happening again at some point if the increase goes through. Again, it's when not if.

[ApeDosMil]

Minimum wage is not a living wage, and these companies have the profit margins to afford the raised minimum. The companies that can't afford to pay the new minimum are doomed to fail, because they will hemorrhage money. Of course, the companies that start popping up after the change, will be smart enough to account for the new minimum or they just won't launch. Raising the minimum wage not only makes it so these people can feed themselves, but it slows down big companies' ability to siphon money and just sit on it, waiting to spend on luxuries that are based merely on opinion, for instance. I say raise the minimum wage, and stop bailing out companies. It's a slap in the face to the average citizen.

[Chrysia]

The more money you can put into the economy the better. I get that, more people making livable wages is fine. Increases would be a couple bucks here and there on everything. That's right now. Do you honestly believe it would stay relative to minimum wage for the long haul? If you don't think what is going on right now with the minimum wage issues won't come back in this country especially then you're missing the point entirely. I dont care about the small changes that will happen right away that we are all agreeing on. My point is there is NOTHING stopping this from happening again at some point if the increase goes through. Again, it's when not if.

Nobody is disputing this. As a matter of fact, it's a fact of a healthy economy. For over forty years, raising the minimum wage to keep up with inflation was so non-controversial Congress assumed it would always remain so. They were wrong.

[Endus]

The business would likely just go under. We don't have a way to increase our margins in the current market- Medicare doesn't care what you pay your employees. We have been trying to build a separate retail store, but building a business like that costs money before it generates any.

Then the business goes under. Businesses folding and making room for a competitor with a better/more efficient business model is a good thing. Capitalism thrives on this very process. The idea that you should protect a business from going under is directly contradictory to the fundamental mechanics of capitalism.

Hell, I'm a market socialist, and even I think it's unnecessary, for the most part.

Did I ever say they would increase dramatically immediately? I think I said the increases would happen but not a lot immediately.

Then you're just flat-out wrong, and ignoring some very simple mathematics.

Over time there is nothing preventing what's happening right now with minimum wage and inflation from happening again. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

If you don't adjust the minimum wage for inflation, then inflation will outpace the minimum wage. Yes.

Nobody is disputing that.

We're pointing out that refusing to adjust the minimum wage, like you're doing, is the cause of the problem. It isn't in any way a solution.

[valliant13]

That's the thing, inflation won't stop. It's economically impossible without crashing the economy. Minimum wage has to be tied to inflation. The fact that it wasn't at the beginning was a grave oversight, and the result of a cocky Congress that assumed they'd retain the power to raise it by legislation indefinitely.

Yes I get that, but there is nothing preventing it from getting this bad again. That is my whole point. Goods will slowly rise again to a point where $15 an hour is nothing and they want more. My argument has never been and never will be that $7.25 is a livable wage. If you look back I clearly state I want them to increase the minimum wage. However I don't think increasing it to about double of what it is now is the right amount.