[Druid] How is Resto feeling in WoD currently?

[Deleted]

Hi, joining the thread a bit late and just skimmed through it so if I somehow missed it, sorry.

I've only been normal dungeons on the beta so far and I've tried all three last talents and moment of clarity didn't really do much in terms of my healing output, rampant growth made a lot (using SotF as well), but I ran out of mana insanely quickly, germination seemed to be the right balance between them. What is the general consensus regarding what will be the go-to talent for raiding?

[Pyrianis]

I've only been normal dungeons on the beta so far and I've tried all three last talents and moment of clarity didn't really do much in terms of my healing output, rampant growth made a lot (using SotF as well), but I ran out of mana insanely quickly, germination seemed to be the right balance between them. What is the general consensus regarding what will be the go-to talent for raiding?

You have it figured out pretty well, I'd say. Germination until we have the mana to actualize Rampant Growth's full potential. It remains to be seen whether the latter is realistically within reach.

[Deleted]

Not sure genesis needs a mana cost (in pve), given
- the mana cost of rejuv blanketing
- zero gain in healing done
- the chance to royally f yourself over.

Or have it apply 1 free tick of rejuv instantly.

Or set the minimum ticks to x, for all rejuvs that were about to run out.


I really like the concept of genesis - much more fitting to the class than bloom but i feel it's not quite there. Atm it feels like a tool to secure a spot on the healing meters in an uncoordinated healer setup, at the expense of mana. In a world where epeen > mana because the latter is a non-factor.

My 2 cents

/edit: Bloom was a burst heal that turned your overhealing into effective healing. It gave your wasted mana/healing a second chance at becoming effective healing, if you will. Felt awesome!
Genesis is a tool that makes you spend more mana in a panicky effort to make the hots that you already used count (by sniping other healers and by healing the targets quickly enough for them to survive incoming damage).
That may (rightfully) not be the center of the discussion but I felt it's worth mentioning; it just doesn't click.

[Brilynn]

Agreed, Erz. I don't think there's any Rdruid in the game that can say, "GENESIS? YEAH, I LOVE IT!" It's just not a "lovable" spell for what it costs. Interesting, yes. Amazing, no. Not to mention the inevitable fact that you're spending that mana for someone to get one instant rejuv tick. (lol) They're wanting it to fill a particular niche, and I can see that. It's just a little too costly to make it worth it on most occasions. They want to give us a spell that we really have to NEED before we use the mana on it, which is fine! But the way Genesis works I don't know if there are going to be very many situations where we think that need is high enough to warrant its use. It's what they've given us, and some people won't ever find a time to use it while the rest of us might hit it every once in a while like you said in a panic when the raid is dying if we have the mana to support such gameplay. All and all I think everyone will miss bloom...

[matthias9742]

I won't miss the way it worked. That said I don't know if bloom shroom would even work as it was in the new damage paradigm. If everyone is supposed to be below full all the time, how do you manage enough overheal to make it worthwhile?

Side question: i have not played my r.druid much on beta, but with everyone hating on genesis, what situation Would it be useful in? I am having a hard time justifying its use.

[Deleted]

The only time i used genesis on live was to heal adds on Imerseus.

We'll perhaps use it to heal mushroom on the boss with the green creep and flamethrower (i can't remember his name).

[heavenscalamity]

Definitely feels like we're close to the balance we'll have in WoD. Last few beta builds have had very few balance changes; if we make it to WoD in this state I'll be very happy. Feels like Rdruids and Priests are solid in terms of mechanics/numbers right now.

[Brilynn]

I won't miss the way it worked. That said I don't know if bloom shroom would even work as it was in the new damage paradigm. If everyone is supposed to be below full all the time, how do you manage enough overheal to make it worthwhile?

Side question: i have not played my r.druid much on beta, but with everyone hating on genesis, what situation Would it be useful in? I am having a hard time justifying its use.

We've been discussing Bloom Vs. Genesis from the standpoint of a burst AoE healing mechanic. We aren't going to be looking at bursty damage going into WoD so I don't think the issue is something that breaks druids in any way. However, Bloom is pretty proven to be the better of the two - find me a resto druid on live who would ever hit genesis over a well placed bloom...

Genesis is not a BAD spell(IMO), but as it sits in the Beta it costs more mana than it's really worth the majority of the time. It requires 10 times more setup than Bloom and eventually reduces ALL of your rejuvs to 0. Technically, it is our burst heal that we have in WoD. (Not talking 3 minute Tranq, obviously) However, it's not something that's going to be utilized too terribly much (at least not in the first tier simply because it costs too much mana and all of your raids rejuvs).

Like I said, we aren't going to be headed into a bursty damage situation in WoD (for the majority of the time - we are of course going to run into burst damage mechanics), so Bloom would likely not be used AS MUCH as it is on live. But overall, Bloom is considerably better than Genesis because it allows our overhealing to be useful, is instant, and allows all Rejuvs to stay on the raid and tick away at their leisure. The only negative factor of it was it's range. Now we have an ability that costs a ridiculous amount of mana because they don't want us to spam it, takes away all rejuvs, but can be useful independent of range.

Like every spell in the game, it has it's niche. Heals as many people as we want or have time to HoT very quickly in an emergency without us having to worry whether they're in the green. How often we are going to really be able to effectively USE it, especially in the first tier, is another matter.

[Hygeia]

Anybody have any recent logs of beta fights?

[Deleted]

While mathing around with the Lifebloom glyph one thing occured to me:

Genesis has amazing synergy with Nature's Vigil! You can pre-hot, use NV when the damage happens, then genesis and have a bunch of NV-genesis ticking. Refresh and repeat. Should be quite good actually. Mana concerns aside :]

So you can have a really flexible build (ToL/NV/Germination), that has the potential to CD-stack for AoE burst healing.

- - - Updated - - -

What's your thoughts on lifebloom glyph?
a) Refreshing LB on a tank has the best HPM (obviously) and the worst HPS (36% spellpower per second).
b) Letting LB bloom has good HPM (750% spellpower) and good HPS (50% sp / s).
c) Letting glyphed LB bloom is best HPS (66% sp / s) and worst HPM (660% sp).

b is kinda weird, so I'll leave that out for now.
c sounds like the most fun to me (not paying attention to the timer as much, derp derp :>) and is actually the best HPS. Even if you fill the 6 GCDs that a has per minute over c with rejuvs, c still comes out on top in terms of HPS.

[heavenscalamity]

While mathing around with the Lifebloom glyph one thing occured to me:

Genesis has amazing synergy with Nature's Vigil! You can pre-hot, use NV when the damage happens, then genesis and have a bunch of NV-genesis ticking. Refresh and repeat. Should be quite good actually. Mana concerns aside :]

So you can have a really flexible build (ToL/NV/Germination), that has the potential to CD-stack for AoE burst healing.

- - - Updated - - -

What's your thoughts on lifebloom glyph?
a) Refreshing LB on a tank has the best HPM (obviously) and the worst HPS (36% spellpower per second).
b) Letting LB bloom has good HPM (750% spellpower) and good HPS (50% sp / s).
c) Letting glyphed LB bloom is best HPS (66% sp / s) and worst HPM (660% sp).

b is kinda weird, so I'll leave that out for now.
c sounds like the most fun to me (not paying attention to the timer as much, derp derp :>) and is actually the best HPS. Even if you fill the 6 GCDs that a has per minute over c with rejuvs, c still comes out on top in terms of HPS.

Mana seems like one of the few problems we WILL run into at the beginning of WoD. I still think having to pre-hot and then use genesis is way too expensive to be remotely viable.

[Brilynn]

Mana seems like one of the few problems we WILL run into at the beginning of WoD. I still think having to pre-hot and then use genesis is way too expensive to be remotely viable.

At this point, absolutely. But maybe when we get to the next couple of tiers and have mana to spare. The first tier is always really harsh on mana costs because we just don't have the gear to support the spending like we want (and are now used to lol SoO) I understand that they're trying to avoid healers gaining so much power, but it's inevitable that we are going to get gear, have more mana, and therefore be able to use the spells that were formerly undesirable just because of mana cost. Part of me thinks that we are eventually going to find a time where Genesis owns all. Then again, part of me thinks we may not use it hardly at all this first tier. If Blizz sees that there are no druids using Genesis, they may end up adjusting the cost to make it a little more usable. Who knows.

[Hildrande]

c) Letting glyphed LB bloom is best HPS (66% sp / s) and worst HPM (660% sp).

It's still by far better HPM than Rejuvenation, Healing Touch and Swiftmend.

The question is when we reach the mastery levels it takes to make the glyph not viable. It terms of haste, the bloom benefits from shortened GCD like all the other non-HoTs, and it does crit and multistrike.

[Deleted]

It's still by far better HPM than Rejuvenation, Healing Touch and Swiftmend.

Your point?

It terms of haste, the bloom benefits from shortened GCD like all the other non-HoTs, and it does crit and multistrike.

Your point?

[Deleted]

At this point, absolutely. But maybe when we get to the next couple of tiers and have mana to spare. The first tier is always really harsh on mana costs because we just don't have the gear to support the spending like we want (and are now used to lol SoO) I understand that they're trying to avoid healers gaining so much power, but it's inevitable that we are going to get gear, have more mana, and therefore be able to use the spells that were formerly undesirable just because of mana cost. Part of me thinks that we are eventually going to find a time where Genesis owns all. Then again, part of me thinks we may not use it hardly at all this first tier. If Blizz sees that there are no druids using Genesis, they may end up adjusting the cost to make it a little more usable. Who knows.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. The question is no whether we can afford pre hotting, the question is whether it is required. So far, most burst phases can be covered by raid CDs. If that is somehow not enough, you just need to suck it up even if that means healing less for the rest of the fight. Of course prehotting can be moderated and adjusted to the damage amount quite well.

On Genesis (which is a seperate issue, but somehow dependant on pre hotting), there are basically only two situations where it is viable:
- you need to move for long periods and heavily heal a small number of targets (like tanks, or generally in pvp) at the same time
- boss abilities that hit for a deadly(!) amout over like 5 secs and on at least 5 people, followed by a lull in damage. people need to be healed up fast during the hits but not after them. prehot before the first hit, genesis at beginning, dance and ground heals after that. These situations are usually covered well by raid CDs.

If there are more than a few (like 3-5) targets that need heal, additional Rejuvs are more hps and hpm than Genesis. If you can stand and cast, single target heals are more hps and more hpm on few targets. If there is continuous damage or regular big hits, you are just trading heal in the future for heal now. If there is a single big hit, there is no need for burst heal. Conclusion: Genesis is almost always a big waste of mana. I want Bloom back! All these comments that it wouldn't be useful in the new healing model are very exagerated. Genesis could be fixed by making it not remove the Rejuv and have a (longish, like 30-60 secs) CD instead. A mana cost nerf doesn't really help at all because it still doesn't increase heal and still costs a GCD and Rejuv doesn't heal for enough on its own. And lower mana cost would be very OP in pvp.

And for this NV idea, NV does damage from overheal, so if you want to do dps just put out more Rejuvs unless you somehow need the dps in a window of 5 seconds.

[Hildrande]

Your point?

That Glyph of Blooming at the gear levels we will see at start of WoD, and maybe also later, is effective, in terms of healing per time (single-targetwise), mana and GCD usage. You get a less effective Lifebloom, but more healing from it, and the effectiveness is still superior to the alternatives, hence it's a good trade.

- - - Updated - - -

NV does damage from overheal, so if you want to do dps just put out more Rejuvs unless you somehow need the dps in a window of 5 seconds.

It does? Wow, with the now 40% damage from NV it will be interesting to see how much damage it can account for.

[Deleted]

And for this NV idea, NV does damage from overheal, so if you want to do dps just put out more Rejuvs unless you somehow need the dps in a window of 5 seconds.

DPS? Are we talking about the same resto WoD talent: Nature's Vigil? Afaik it doesn't do damage any more.

That Glyph of Blooming at the gear levels we will see at start of WoD, and maybe also later, is effective, in terms of healing per time (single-targetwise), mana and GCD usage. You get a less effective Lifebloom, but more healing from it, and the effectiveness is still superior to the alternatives, hence it's a good trade.
- - - Updated - - -
It does? Wow, with the now 40% damage from NV it will be interesting to see how much damage it can account for.

I don't even...

I'm out guys. What a waste of time.

[heavenscalamity]

DPS? Are we talking about the same resto WoD talent: Nature's Vigil? Afaik it doesn't do damage any more.


I don't even...

I'm out guys. What a waste of time.

It does still do damage, read the tooltip.

[Brilynn]

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. The question is no whether we can afford pre hotting, the question is whether it is required. So far, most burst phases can be covered by raid CDs. If that is somehow not enough, you just need to suck it up even if that means healing less for the rest of the fight. Of course prehotting can be moderated and adjusted to the damage amount quite well.

On Genesis (which is a seperate issue, but somehow dependant on pre hotting), there are basically only two situations where it is viable:
- you need to move for long periods and heavily heal a small number of targets (like tanks, or generally in pvp) at the same time
- boss abilities that hit for a deadly(!) amout over like 5 secs and on at least 5 people, followed by a lull in damage. people need to be healed up fast during the hits but not after them. prehot before the first hit, genesis at beginning, dance and ground heals after that. These situations are usually covered well by raid CDs.

If there are more than a few (like 3-5) targets that need heal, additional Rejuvs are more hps and hpm than Genesis. If you can stand and cast, single target heals are more hps and more hpm on few targets. If there is continuous damage or regular big hits, you are just trading heal in the future for heal now. If there is a single big hit, there is no need for burst heal. Conclusion: Genesis is almost always a big waste of mana. I want Bloom back! All these comments that it wouldn't be useful in the new healing model are very exagerated. Genesis could be fixed by making it not remove the Rejuv and have a (longish, like 30-60 secs) CD instead. A mana cost nerf doesn't really help at all because it still doesn't increase heal and still costs a GCD and Rejuv doesn't heal for enough on its own. And lower mana cost would be very OP in pvp.

And for this NV idea, NV does damage from overheal, so if you want to do dps just put out more Rejuvs unless you somehow need the dps in a window of 5 seconds.

Never said it wasn't a waste of mana the majority of the time. I actually was saying the exact same thing, but that we may or may not find an appropriate time to use it. EVENTUALLY there is bound to be an occasion where it's good to use. I'd love if they would leave Rejuvs on the target and give it a CD, but wouldn't that just be too similar to WG at that point? Why give us WG and improved WG aka Genesis when they could just give us our Bloom back? I'm saying mana cost nerf because even though it doesn't increase the healing it would do, we would be able to use it more often (I didn't even think about the PvP ramifications, honestly). Problem then again being when the ideal time is to even use it at all. Le sigh, I don't know. I just don't want to believe that we have a completely useless button on our bar. There HAS to EVENTUALLY be a time where it's worth it. They're taking a LOT of the raid CDs away so it's something that we have just in case, I guess. There are certainly times in progression where a raid CD just isn't enough. And with so many of them gone we can't just rely on them like we do now (lol Thok)

[Hildrande]

It does still do damage, read the tooltip.

Tooltip's aren't always right, but I tested it, and NV as resto still causes damage from healing and overhealing.