Pay to win Hearthstone

[mongoose6]

If there would be a casual mode for Arena w/o any benefits that would be a nice Addition I think...

That's probably one of the best idea's i've heard in awhile.

[Deleted]

As entertaining as mirror's special antics are, the existence of such a person does point out a bit of a concern with the game. The inability for new players to enjoy the content. Although the tutorials help, someone with zero experience will have a very difficult time entering casual/ranked. They need to leave the training wheels on for a bit longer I think. Maybe a mode of play only available for a certain amount of time where brand new players can play one another.

I don't think there is a lot of reasons to be concerned about it. The game has 20 million players (or accounts, but regardless, REALLY MANY) and most of those will be beginners. It is easy to read forums and watch streams begin to believe the average player is rank 5 or higher, but it is actually a tiny minority who play even at that level.

Most of the players will be rank 15 and up (meaning 25-15) and that creates an enormous pool of low ranked players to play against each other, and even more so in the 25-20 ranks, where you can't even drop if you tried.

To me it seems the main problem is the perception that you need a lot of expensive cards to win any games. For the lowest levels, all you need is one deck of 30 cards, and maybe a few extra so you can have a small sideboard. The deck does not need to be great or awesome to win games at the levels that beginners are meant to play at.

[Temp name]

Also crossing the English Channel in 15 minutes is doable. In certain conditions, by certain swimmers.

Which means it's doable. You could do it yourself if you wanted, you'd just need to spend a lot of time (Practice) to do it.

- - - Updated - - -

I see we are still feeding mirror...and I assume no one reported him so far b/c he's just to entertaining...

You are completely correct. I'm having too much fun with him.

[Novx]

Also crossing the English Channel in 15 minutes is doable. In certain conditions, by certain swimmers.

Good to know. Not entirely sure why you told me that considering I never claimed that you couldn't cross the English channel in 15 minutes.

[Segus1992]

I really have nothing against being able to pay for decks and it taking a long time to farm gold, but the amount of people saying it's not P2W is astounding. Sure, it's not true P2W as in OP cards only available for money, but paying certainly does improve player power.

Imagine if Blizzard sold WoW gear. How many of you would be crying P2W then?

[Santti]

I really have nothing against being able to pay for decks and it taking a long time to farm gold, but the amount of people saying it's not P2W is astounding. Sure, it's not true P2W as in OP cards only available for money, but paying certainly does improve player power.

Imagine if Blizzard sold WoW gear. How many of you would be crying P2W then?

Why, of course people would complain. WoW's business model is in it's subscriptions. Hearthstone needs to bring revenue, so it sells cards for money.

[Novx]

I really have nothing against being able to pay for decks and it taking a long time to farm gold, but the amount of people saying it's not P2W is astounding. Sure, it's not true P2W as in OP cards only available for money, but paying certainly does improve player power.

Imagine if Blizzard sold WoW gear. How many of you would be crying P2W then?

You can't just buy specific cards with money, that isn't how it works. If Blizzard wants to start selling bags of loot in WoW that cost $1-2 each and can have anything from a white to an epic in them I am fine with it because it will be true entertainment for me to watch some idiot spent $500 on a bunch of grays/whites/greens.

Also, that bolded part. You can't say it is and it isn't P2W at the same time.

[zoomgpally]

No, you cannot.

30 wins is 100 g...
If you count daily quests as well.
40g daily quest + 18 wins = 100g
60g daily quest + 12 wins = 100g

Edit: 100g daily quest = 100g

- - - Updated - - -

60 gold quests require 5 victories usually which makes it a total of 17 victories needed for 100g that day. If you need 8 games for 1 victory then you either need to look very hard at your game or this game is simply not for you. I'm a below average player and my win rate is hovering around 50% all the time.

You are forgetting that wins for quest also count for 3wins/10g

[Azrile]

Decided to try out a basic warrior in casual, trying to learn it a little (and get two wins for a quest). I've played very little, just a bit on Mage and a slightly custom Mage deck. Everyone pulled out Maxenna, which I don't even know how to get. The last guy I thought before accepting it was pointless pulled out Maxenna, Stalagg(?) and Kel'Thuzad against my basic Warrior deck. So much for trying to get two wins to get currency.

Would be nice if they at least pitched me against new people too.

the game does put you against someone with the same rating. You played in the wrong mode.

- - - Updated - - -

As entertaining as mirror's special antics are, the existence of such a person does point out a bit of a concern with the game. The inability for new players to enjoy the content. Although the tutorials help, someone with zero experience will have a very difficult time entering casual/ranked. They need to leave the training wheels on for a bit longer I think. Maybe a mode of play only available for a certain amount of time where brand new players can play one another.

See, this is what I don´t get. No matter what your skill level, you are going to win 40-60% of your games. that is the way ladder games work. The only exception would be someone who is REALLY REALLY bad at the game and is rank 25 and can not beat other rank 25 people.

[kaiadam]

Sure, it takes a lot of time for a player to earn every single card without spending RL money if all they play is constructed. There's a few things wrong with your premise, however:

1.) You don't need every card in hearthstone to enjoy it. Far from it. Even if your collection was worth 1/3 the dust of the full HS collection, you'd be able to scrounge together at least three top tier decks.
2.) More legendaries =/= better deck. It's often the reverse. Here is the win rate and deck lists for the decks I played this month from rank 16 -> legendary. You'll note that my best deck happened to contain no legendaries, and my control warrior with 8 legendaries was merely at a middling 68%.
3.) All you need to do is log in every day, then reroll a 40g quest. Statistically, you'll be earning ~66g per day if you complete every daily, which you can do every 3 days. That's basically been my strategy these past few months - log in every day to reroll bad quests, actually play every third day or so to clear out the log.

You only need to open ~20 packs or so to field one top tier competitive deck. That's about a month of dailies, which seems somewhat reasonable if you refuse to do anything other than constructed. It's much faster if you're willing to play arena (and you're good at it), or spend RL money. If you're not good enough to go even or better in arena, you've got much bigger issues to work on to advance in hearthstone, and increasing your collection won't even break the top 5 things you should do to improve.

[Novx]

The current Blizzcon Hearthstone Tournament features Best of 5 Duels and most Videos are one to two Hours long: https://www.youtube.com/user/hearthstonevods/videos
(in between games chat was edited out on each video except for a few seconds)

To earn 100g a Day from playing you need 30 wins = 60 games, that is easily 15 Hours played. 50g is more realistic (including the daily quest). One day awards slightmly more than 50g but you cannot play every day even as nolifer, sometimes you get sick, on vacation, or Battle.net maintenance.

According to that website you need 510 packs to craft all cards.
http://2p.com/1817915_1/Easy-Math-He...earthstone.htm

So I would say you need to play 1020days to craft all cards + 56 Days for Naxx 2800g, minus the Cards you get in Boosters and do not have to craft.

For Gold Cards, you need Dust worth 2550 packs or 5100 days played. Fourteen years of play almost every day hmmkay.

I'm sorry but are you truly trying to compare a tournament setting with rank 15-20 ladder? Even the tournament meta is different than ladder meta and rarely (if ever) will you see super aggressive decks in tournaments. On ladder my games last 10-13 minutes usually (depends how slow the opponent is) running a control priest or ramp druid deck (neither are considered a fast deck by any means). Comparing the top ranked players in the world to people stuck at rank 20 is like comparing a casual jogger to Usain Bolt.

Also, gold cards are cosmetic...they provide zero benefit and should be treated as such.

[AeneasBK]

According to that website you need 510 packs to craft all cards.
http://2p.com/1817915_1/Easy-Math-He...earthstone.htm

So I would say you need to play 1020days to craft all cards + 56 Days for Naxx 2800g, minus the Cards you get in Boosters and do not have to craft.

For Gold Cards, you need Dust worth 2550 packs or 5100 days played. Fourteen years of play almost every day hmmkay.

I wonder where the flaw is, I log in every 3 days or so, play about 10 games to clean up the 3 quests and walk off with 150-200 gold. For about an hour and a half every 3 days, or 30 minutes a day *average*

the 510 packs thing ignores a few important factors, but it would only be able to get a "rough guess" anway. But even in a worst case scenario you're going to receive golden cards in the packs you open and they disenchant for more. So to say "Oh we ignored golden cards, they would cost you 4 times as much!" is misleading...