[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[Dracodraco]

Mythic dogs are terrible for Markman, when you get the fire side. Any suggestion on what is best to do on pure movement fights?

Get better at managing movement or go BM. Those are your options.

[Azortharion]

This is my kill video on Felhounds yesterday, I had fire debuff. It was a one-shot with no Lust off the pull (we just pulled for the memes expecting to wipe), so I was completely new to every aspect of the Mythic encounter at this point. Still managed alright despite some panicky moments. As for movement there are no magic tricks, just managing it.

[Eapoe]

So, I'm new to using simc and raidbots, but are there tweaks to be aware of or is it pretty set? After looking at the guide again and seeing potential for the Insignia ring, I have the best t2 NLC traits but shows boots/ring are better for me. How do I get it to run without an extra trueshot usage? Is there something to adjust the number or should I just adjust fight lengths?
Forgive the ignorance with the system, please.

[Youn]

From the looks of that fight you kept falling back out of the group to get shots. If I do that, our healers will say screw healing him. :P

[Azortharion]

You only need to be stacked when the actual rings are occurring and you have to move as a group, to minimize the amount that everyone has to move. Other than that predictable-ish stutter-step movement, you gotta just not stand in shit/get pulled into the orb when that happens, and spread out from others when appropriate. Thus the only sucky movement parts are moving as a group with the fire rings, and the orb.

[Eapoe]

Cursed with too much haste at this point. My raid ilvl is about 947 and I have about 16% haste. I've been trying to drop this but my pieces are either low or have things such as crit/vers. While I'm not opposed to crit/here, pawn keeps putting me at higher upgrades with the gear that has haste. Wondering if anyone has any quick ideas if it would just be worth it to use my other off pieces to just go with higher haste and get the extra arcane shot since I'm so close anyways and can't seem to drop below 16% right now.
16% also seems to be the magic number of not hitting ideal vulnerable windows, as my last AiS's usually hit with more time than I want or just after it ends.
Also, as I'm not familiar with Pawn too well, is it taking into account that showing me a slight upgrade with a haste/mastery piece over a crit/mastery piece the haste breakpoint?
Planning on simming myself, but before I spend an hour or 2 swapping things around, just didn't know if anyone had a quick answer for the situation.

[Azortharion]

Pawn just does stat weight calculations. It's a completely useless tool for figuring out what gear to wear, compared to other options available to us (Raidbots). If you can take advantage of the 17.1% breakpoint, it is completely "real" and a nice QoL benefit.

[Eapoe]

Pawn just does stat weight calculations. It's a completely useless tool for figuring out what gear to wear, compared to other options available to us (Raidbots). If you can take advantage of the 17.1% breakpoint, it is completely "real" and a nice QoL benefit.

Alright, thanks for the heads up. I can hit the breakpoint pretty easily with my gear I've been avoiding, so I'll just start using that until I drop down some haste with different gear down the road.
Not to brownnose, but always appreciate the information you put out there for people.

[Eapoe]

1 last question (hopefully). I've bee getting LnL procs right as vulnerable is running out. If I haven't cast a 3rd AiS by that point, I've been holding on to the proc while rebuilding focus and only using it if I'm going to lose the proc while building or if I'm going to focus cap. I'm wondering if it is better to just use them and then start rebuilding focus so as not to waste a potential future proc or if I should keep doing what I have been and hold onto the proc hoping for the next vulnerable window.

[Azortharion]

If you can cast the LnL's in a Vulnerable immediately, there is 0 reason why you wouldn't. If you get a proc while Vuln is up, even with 0.5s remaining, you can always cast at least one charge, and then enter the next Vuln ASAP to finish it off. If you get stuck without Vuln/a proc with LnL up you are kind of fucked no matter what.

[Eapoe]

If you can cast the LnL's in a Vulnerable immediately, there is 0 reason why you wouldn't. If you get a proc while Vuln is up, even with 0.5s remaining, you can always cast at least one charge, and then enter the next Vuln ASAP to finish it off. If you get stuck without Vuln/a proc with LnL up you are kind of fucked no matter what.

Yeah, that's kind of why I was wondering if you try to save them for next Vuln phase or just cast immediately to use the proc. I've gotten them after Vuln has ended while rebuilding focus for the next Vuln phase available and no procs to use with WB on CD.

[Deleted]

So I was thinking about trying Sidewinders for the Coven of Shivarra fight, but I dont quite understand the rotation even after reading the guide. Is there any in depth Sidewinders guide out there with T20 4set and T21 2set considered?
Like what's a good opener with SW for example? Do I use marked shots as soon as they're applied while cleaving 2 targets or do I wait for Vuln to run out? Maybe it says in the guide somewhere and I'm blind..

I'm thinking Prydaz+Boots on this fight is a good legendary combo, and MoC to get the adds down a bit quicker, sounds good?
Also, is there a guide for MM hunter tips and tricks for the Antorus raid somewhere?

Appreciate any help, and thanks for taking the time to make this Icy veins guide and keep it updated, it's been helping me out alot!

[Azortharion]

If you cast 2x Aimed before Marked Shot every time after casting Sidewinders, and then follow up with a single Aimed shot as needed, then you are basically 99% of the way towards a "perfect rotation" (which would mean a lot of induced waiting), so don't overthink it too much. Point is to get 2pc up for the Marked Shot cleave. T20 4set and T21 2p don't change anything. Trueshot is the same as any other single-target Trueshot, maximize focus spending, then maximize focus generation, ensuring you have the highest possible number of both. This usually just means doing the standard rotation, but omitting the 3rd Aimed to not space your Sidewinders out so much that you lose casts in Trueshot.

Throughout the tier I make a Boss-by-Boss guide for that tier, similar to what you can see for Tomb now. Such a thing will be up for Antorus soontm

[Tehterokkar]

While I normally play BM, I used Sidewinders MM for Coven with T21 4p/T20 2p with Prydaz/Boots. It did more damage than BM and there is basically 0 movement.

I suggest either picking Camouflage or resetting the boss before each pull so you can get to the opposite side of where the 2 bosses are tanked for much easier opener.

As with always using Sidewinders, it takes practice finding the right spots where you hit everything you want to. I found that the hitboxes of the bosses were really weird with Sidewinders and required you to stand much farther back than usual if you are standing in the middle of the room, unless you go to 1 of the sides and hit them from there, but that limits your own vision due to the walls and I found that awkward.

[velkroe]

Curious if anyone has a good rule of thumb as to when to use the trinket Cof instead of Tarnished Medallion (assuming both are the same ilevel). I have gone through and simmed myself for various length fights and it seems that 7+ min fights Cof is better. But aside from simming yourself for every fight is there a general rule of thumb. In my own testing it looks like Cof reduced the cool down of trueshot by about 15 seconds (assuming true-shot boots) is that the case?

[Azortharion]

On any multi-target ever.

[aeHmmm]

hey another question regarging yout trinket values.
I made the experience that my 935 tarnished medallion does overall more dmg than my 965 pantheon trinket even with 10-15 pantheon trinket in the raid. My personal sims show that only a 975+ pantheon trinket would be better than the tarnished but your sheet says that both trinkets would be even with a 940s panth.

Your logs on garothi myth this week: 14.03m + 2.5 M with pantheon (965)
Other logs (ponkyxd) from this week: 14.50m + 6.1 M with owl (935)
--> Same fight length, same talents / legendaries

My other question is focusing on aoe trinkets. Would you recommend any other trinket over a cof 915? i have a 965s high command trinket but I kinda doubt that it outscales the cof effect. Same for the shadow singed fang or the prototype personnel pecimator. thanks for your efforts. rly appreciate your work.

[Azortharion]

Yeah, the Owl proc does more damage than the Pantheon one. The Pantheon trinket has way more stats than the Owl though (3.7k agi is worth substantially more than ~1.4k Mastery).

You're also not counting in the value of having the trinket for the rest of your raid. It increases the proc occurrence for EVERYONE, meaning by wearing the Pantheon trinket you're supplying your raid with potentially millions of damage total.

A 965 Beacon will outdo a CoF in most cases where you can use it on multiple targets every time. PPD same thing except it's easier to use than Beacon for obvious reasons. Shadow-Singed Fang is no bueno compared to CoF.

[Azortharion]

Going into Battle for Azeroth, I am looking for ways to make the guides better, so I'm looking for feedback not related to the actual info the guide right now, but rather the way it is presented, sims that you might want in there, more math/theorycraft, less math/theorycraft, and so on and so forth. Basically, things that are not only relevant now, but will be relevant going into BfA as well.

[Youn]

So, looking at the new Marksman. It appears you can either fire on CD vs fire in bursts on with procs.

IE.. do you fire Aimed shot on CD or hit hunters Mark and fire both Aimed Shots then wait for next Hunters Mark window?

Is that something that is determined by different API setups?