Enough is enough, BM hunters need help and they need it now

[Wilfire]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#

BM hunters are not just dead last. There's outlaw rogues which are in a bad spot as well but at least there are other specs close in performance to them. Then there's just a massive drop-off in performance and you have BM hunters. And it's not just in PvE.

http://www.arenamate.net/representation-graphs

S6: 5 BM hunter total above 2.2k in 3v3; 1 BM hunter above 2.2k in 2v2.

BM hunters don't have any redeeming qualities. They are just BAD and this is unacceptable in an expansion that encourages you to stick to your spec. Instead of alleviating the issue, Blizzard keeps pushing bad class design on hunters and nerfing them. Yes, BM is brain-dead easy to play right now, but whose fault is that? Instead of buffing talents that promote engaging gameplay (chimera shot, dire frenzy stack management, cobra shot / kill command weaving), Blizzard doubled-down on making the brain-dead choices the best ones.

Things that need to be done:
1. KILL the brain-dead "beast cannon" build
2. Buff chimera shot's and dire frenzy's damage output
3. Revert template nerfs in PvP
4. Improve scaling for surge of the stormgod

[ONCHEhap]

I don't know too much about BM,but imo,they should reward the more engaging gameplay choice with better DPS

I'm fine with the 2 button spec BM remaining low,but players trying to play a more complex spec should be rewarded for it

[Kagthul]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#

BM hunters are not just dead last. There's outlaw rogues which are in a bad spot as well but at least there are other specs close in performance to them. Then there's just a massive drop-off in performance and you have BM hunters. And it's not just in PvE.

http://www.arenamate.net/representation-graphs

S6: 5 BM hunter total above 2.2k in 3v3; 1 BM hunter above 2.2k in 2v2.

BM hunters don't have any redeeming qualities. They are just BAD and this is unacceptable in an expansion that encourages you to stick to your spec. Instead of alleviating the issue, Blizzard keeps pushing bad class design on hunters and nerfing them. Yes, BM is brain-dead easy to play right now, but whose fault is that? Instead of buffing talents that promote engaging gameplay (chimera shot, dire frenzy stack management, cobra shot / kill command weaving), Blizzard doubled-down on making the brain-dead choices the best ones.

Things that need to be done:
1. KILL the brain-dead "beast cannon" build
2. Buff chimera shot's and dire frenzy's damage output
3. Revert template nerfs in PvP
4. Improve scaling for surge of the stormgod

Kind of sad to see, really, but thankfully it doesnt impact my enjoyment of the game since i dont raid, not even LFR.... and PvP this expac has been so terrible i haven't done anything other than the WQs since about 6 weeks after launch. You couldn't pay me to PvP right now.

[Cazz17]

A spec that plays like BM shouldn’t deserve perform up to far with classes that are harder to play (not saying any class is actually hard). K

[Leyre]

name me other ranged class who doesnt need to stay still even for 1 second to do full dps

[Kagthul]

name me other ranged class who doesnt need to stay still even for 1 second to do full dps

Which does't matter because youll never get to do your dps because youll be told to switch to MM or get benched.

[Emerald Archer]

Which doesn't matter because youll never get to do your dps because youll be told to switch to MM or get benched.

I mean, on some fights sure. But BM is definitely mythic raiding viable. Hardcore mythic raiding viable too, not just "yeah it's okay" just a really solid spec.

Viability does not = the dps you see on warcraft logs.
Raid viable, has a lot more to it. BM is raid viable.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Sadly they're not doing class reworks for BfA.

They could at least promote the more engaging talent choices of the spec by allowing for much better DPS. BM hunters might be able to move freely, but their pets adhere to melee rules all the same. At this point, I'd be happy if they returned us to WoD-style BM and made our focus regen ability stand-still.

[Emerald Archer]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#

BM hunters are not just dead last. There's outlaw rogues which are in a bad spot as well but at least there are other specs close in performance to them. Then there's just a massive drop-off in performance and you have BM hunters. And it's not just in PvE.

Rather than looking at meaningless dps numbers, why not look at its actual REAL viability? In top end mythic raiding?

So ofc it's fine for the first 5 bosses, they're a bit of a meme.

Imonar? Nothing special, decent spec, gets brought a bit.
Kin'garoth? Very strong spec, good on demand burst for large add dmg (which is the most important part of that fight, aside from don't eat balls)
Varimathras? Very strong spec, actually typically better than MM on this fight, heaps of MMs play BM on it, because of the significantly higher add dmg.
Coven? Yes this is a terrible fight for BM, but this is that kind of fight for a lot of specs.
Aggramar? Hunters are all in all terrible for this fight, mm and bm alike, due to squishyness. Neither are desired in this fight, that's not a BM issue, that's a core hunter issue.
Argus? Very strong spec, about equal demand to MM, which is fairly high on this fight.

So yeah, BM is most definitely very viable in this raid, and it's not all about the pure warcraft log numbers. They mean next to nothing when it comes to real raid viability.

- - - Updated - - -

Sadly they're not doing class reworks for BfA.

Source? Because if you're referring to what I think you're referring to, that's not what they said.

[Vellithe]

The problem is that if they make BM truly viable, it becomes amazingly OP for low-skill groups which comprise the majority of the groups. Still, I think the underperforming in PVE is mostly due to the terrible tier bonuses we get.

Personally, I think there should be easier specs that perform very close to the harder specs. It's important to have these options for players. If a player is just not as good, they could play BMs or Arcane or whatever, instead of forcing themselves to play something more difficult and sucking at it, which ruins the game for all of us. This game already puts most of your performance on your gear, so it's not really that much of a stretch to also have specs that are simply easier. And isn't the current highest DPS coming from one of the easiest specs anyhow?

[Einsz]

A spec that plays like BM shouldn’t deserve perform up to far with classes that are harder to play (not saying any class is actually hard). K

Affli warlock and boomkin are as stupid to play as BM hunter yet they are entire tier above anyone else.

[Magnagarde]

Whoever picks this spec indicates they like things going the easy way for them. Someone who prefers a class with unhinged mobility that revolves around tapping 3 buttons on cooldown shouldn't cry wolf about the position of the spec.

Besides, playing hunter overall in PvP has been attrocious throughout the expansion.

[skribzy]

Somebody has to be last, everyone understands this. They just never want it to be their spec.
BM is the third most played spec in Normal and Heroic, and the sixth most played in Mythic.
People are taking BM hunters to all tiers of raiding despite being statistically low dps wise.

And just speaking personally, my mythic plus group has a BM hunter that runs with us. Being able to bring heroism and a battle res depending on what the group needs its great. Some might call it a Redeeming Quality.

[Bronan]

Somebody has to be last, everyone understands this. They just never want it to be their spec.
BM is the third most played spec in Normal and Heroic, and the sixth most played in Mythic.
People are taking BM hunters to all tiers of raiding despite being statistically low dps wise.

And just speaking personally, my mythic plus group has a BM hunter that runs with us. Being able to bring heroism and a battle res depending on what the group needs its great. Some might call it a Redeeming Quality.

Because Survival is melee and MM is as fun to play as getting a root canal. Lots of hunters only play BM because it's the only spec that is fun.

[Deleted]

1. Those above stating that BM is 2 or 3 buttons is wrong simple as that. If you don't know what you're talking about then you should just shush.

2. Yes it is very easy to play but so is my Ret paladin so is my Assasination Rogue and so is my Enh shammy.
As easy? No not quite but easy none the less.

3. I do kind of agree with the poster above about the more difficult specs being able to do more damage. I have no problem with that.

What i DO have a problem with is that the one single reason i rolled a BM hunter was to have a pet at my command. BM used to be busy hectic and engaging and soooo much fun. It's not my fault Blizz made it mind numbingly easy. Should i be punished for that? Should i have to suffer with crap DPS because Blizz decided to dumb it down?

What about any other class or spec? After all if Mages suddenly found themselves at the bottom of the meters they have the same choice as i do .... they can play a different toon.

SO CAN YOU ... i'll say that again ... SO CAN YOU.

If your Spriest or your DK or your Warlock are so hard to play then you have the same choice as everyone else and can reroll

Lets be honest NO spec is difficult to play if you are used to it so bashing other specs because of how easy you think they are is pointless.

YOU have a choice.

[Yuyn]

Which does't matter because youll never get to do your dps because youll be told to switch to MM or get benched.

Yet somehow the statistics the OP linked show it's the most-represented hunter spec in mythic difficulty. MM has less representation. Survival is dead-last in representation. BM is the sixth-most-played spec.

So if it's that bad, why is it so heavily-played in mythic difficulty? This isn't normal, or even heroic. This is mythic when we're only a month into a tier.

[Yakibob]

Because Survival is melee and MM is as fun to play as getting a root canal. Lots of hunters only play BM because it's the only spec that is fun.

This is my exact situation. I liked ranged survival and would switch between the two but now my fun is limited to a dimbed down and underperforming BM spec. Its a shame what they have done to this spec.

[Hablion]

I believe method used a Beast Master Hunter

[Deleted]

They should make BM hunters into a melee spec.

[Yakibob]

I believe method used a Beast Master Hunter

On one fight