Ghostcrawler on why WoW became a game for casuals

[Kraenen]

Because challenge is working really well for Wildstar right?

Im sure Blizz will take 6 million subs for a game everyone can play rather than 500k subs where only HC players play the game.

TBC and vanilla only had 500k subs?

[mysticx]

WoW is so casual this days the only thing that requires skill this days is heroic raiding... and challenge modes... and arena... and rated BGs... and proving grounds a little bit... and brawlers guild can be tough if you don´t over gear it too much... pet battling can be tough if you don´t research the fights before hand.. but thats it! But if you ignore all of that you can see how dumb down the game really is.

So the hard-modes of PvE and PvP are difficult, which is what you're looking for (And you apparently enjoy enough to keep playing and debating the game online), what does it matter how easy the easy-modes are?

Your argument is the equivalent of saying "Hard mode of this game is great, but there's an easy mode too, THIS GAME SUCKS!"

[Lazuli]

So the hard-modes of PvE and PvP are difficult, which is what you're looking for (And you apparently enjoy enough to keep playing and debating the game online), what does it matter how easy the easy-modes are?

Your argument is the equivalent of saying "Hard mode of this game is great, but there's an easy mode too, THIS GAME SUCKS!"

I do agree with you, but when scrubs start getting the similar rewards to mine, that is when I nerd rage.

Gear is handed out way too easily nowadays, I wish blizz would put the effort back into WoW (INB4 2ND JOB LOLOLOLLO)

[Philosopino]

There's no interest value in the game. There nothing for anyone to pick up. It's just one of those pleasant comfortable things to look at passing by somewhere but it's not something you want to be doing for a video game your supposed to play for hours and hours.

sometimes it's so stale and pointless that it's a self deception thinking it's still interesting. Trying to defend that there's nothing wrong with the game has proven mentally unproductive for me.


It's one of those things that's like "oh ok, that's great", but it's not really something we want to feel for addicting video games.

[Kezotar]

Really? I thought he was behind the casualization and homogenization and thats why everyone hated him but of course I don't know the details.

That's what everyone thinks. Why do you think the game is getting even more homogenized now that he's gone? Beacause his hands were bound to Blizzards words.
He had
Option a) Balance the game how WE like it.
Option b) Leave Blizzard.

He left.

[Osmeric]

That's what everyone thinks. Why do you think the game is getting even more homogenized now that he's gone? Beacause his hands were bound to Blizzards words.

Exactly. Forum fools scapegoated him, perhaps because it was more comforting to believe the game was being "ruined" (sic) by a single person instead of by irresistible commercial forces.

[Sangomah]

Fail to see what this thread is about.

Both LoL and WoW is exactly the same. Easy to pick up, and difficult to master. The communities are just as toxic too....

[Yriel]

2) As a result of these efforts and different definitions of potential audience, WoW has a much broader audience than LoL. That's fine. Different strategies work for different games.

I thought LoL had a much higher playerbase then WoW. Are they all hardcore ?

[Theendgamelv3]

I don't see anything wrong with what he says in that post he made. WoW has a strong PVE focus and it has millions of players so yea the chances are that you have to design things for a players who aren't that great. LoL is pvp focused so its difficulty comes from the players. LoL you don't have to worry as much. On top of which they are 2 different games. Had he gone to another MMO, then we're talking about something different.

[Keyblader]

My grandma actually does play wow, and not the "logs in to play with pets" she has 5 90s and does lfr/ flex weekly :|

[Marema]

I can only hope the game gets more casual! Being an adult with responsibilities sucks sometimes!

[Osmeric]

I thought LoL had a much higher playerbase then WoW. Are they all hardcore ?

The "whales" may be biased toward the hardcores.

[Eranthe]

This game started bleeding subscribers when they started trying to please everyone (which is impossible btw). It worked better when blizzard picked a demographic (raiders) and designed 90% of content for that demographic. Being a raider was the carrot on a stick for new players and the game had a clear progression path. Now it's "World of Sandbox Do Whatever You Like Best-Craft" and it's a mile wide and an inch deep.

Every time the devs design something they have to consider whether the crybabies who flatly refuse to pvp will be able to manage it. for example, the achievements for childrens' week are perfect examples. something straightforward as "do a normal bg objective with your orphan out" becomes: OMG WHY IS BLIZZARD FORCING ME TO PVP THIS IS SO SHITTY IM CANCELING MY SUB.

Point is: the game had a successful trajectory right up until the time they started catering to EVERYONE and telling everyone to play however they wanted and don't worry about what other people are doing. It took away the desire to get better, the carrot on a stick that keeps us playing, so we can actually achieve something.

[Osmeric]

This game started bleeding subscribers when they started trying to please everyone (which is impossible btw).

The game has been bleeding subscribers since day 1. What changed is that the balance between new subs joining and existing subs leaving shifted. It was always a leaky bucket.

The notion that pleasing the top players would stop the bleed was effectively disproved by Cataclysm. GC's statements (and others from Blizzard) tell us what their internal data must have shown -- people would step out rather than step up. The experience in other "hard" MMOs confirms this. This clearly disappointed GC, which makes his statements all the more believable. He didn't want it to be true.

You may be right, though. Blizzard has put too much emphasis on pleasing the top players. The game might be better off if the top raid modes (and rated PvP) were simply removed. Sure, the top players would leave, but the lesser players might very well have a better time. And those lesser players dominate the potential subscriber pool.

[Eranthe]

The game has been bleeding subscribers since day 1. What changed is that the balance between new subs joining and existing subs leaving shifted. It was always a leaky bucket.

The notion that pleasing the top players would stop the bleed was effectively disproved by Cataclysm. GC's statements (and others from Blizzard) tell us what their internal data must have shown -- people would step out rather than step up. The experience in other "hard" MMOs confirms this. This clearly disappointed GC, which makes his statements all the more believable. He didn't want it to be true.

You may be right, though. Blizzard has put too much emphasis on pleasing the top players. The game might be better off if the top raid modes (and rated PvP) were simply removed. Sure, the top players would leave, but the lesser players might very well have a better time. And those lesser players dominate the potential subscriber pool.

competition is ultimately what drives this game. taking out the competitive aspects would kill it quicker than most new mmos fail.

[Celista]

The sheer volume of assumptions you are making is staggering. It's quite humorous, actually. Don't ever go into the practice of law.

This made me laugh for reasons I will not post here.

Not true at all.

It is true but I also understand that most people posting in this thread are probably students and not professionals so....*shrug*. You'll figure out what is and what is not appropriate behavior when the time comes.

How's your 9/9 gold and HM garrosh kill going?

9/9 gold isn't all that challenging.

[OneSent]

Damn. Shots fired.

[Bullettime]

I thought LoL had a much higher playerbase then WoW. Are they all hardcore ?

Number of players has nothing to do with the targeted demographics. WoW makes a lot of design decisions targeted at making sure everyone can do everything in the game except for Mythic raiding. LoL on the other hand focuses purely on just being fun to play.

WoW overall is more limited in what it can do because it tries to cater to a specific demographic where LoL doesn't. It can basically do whatever it wants in the name of fun and run no risk. Part of it is because it's F2P though.

edutL Blizzard needs the raiders as they're the ones driving the community and form the knowledge base of the game and are often the most devout fans, but they need to make sure the grandmas are happy too as the super casual grandmas playing with their grandkids type of games make up the bulk of the sub money. They end up in a tricky spot of trying to balance super accessibility with compelling gaming.

[Kassander]

OMG

"Show me on the doll what ghostcrawler did"

Some of the comments in that thread.... good read.

[Darsithis]

We shouldn't allow casuals to rule the game. They are toxic to the core of what World of Warcraft stands for. Casuals in terms of those who filth up LFR, and then demand that they get the same gear, achievements, rewards as those who put in time and effort to raid in a heroic environment.

I challenge you to show me proof that someone who only participates in LFR has asked for the heroic-only achievements and rewards.