Do you think Raid content should be a reward for Raiders and not casuals?

[Felarion]

I think they make it that raiding is for everybody.

I want hard difficulity, got time to read tacs and wipe untill that dragon die so i play mythic. Rewand is also important. I want best great for greatest effort

Somebody got kids/family/work that require him to be offline for couple of days a week ? No problem he cant play heroic/normal via openraid. It's still required a little bit effort.

Someone else want to ez mode without any effort. Play lfr then

[Duronos]

Raid content is for anyone who pays the sub to see and enjoy, not just an arbitrary segment of the game population. Sorry snowflakes, you're no longer special and unique. Stop basing your self-worth on vidja game stuff and your lives will vastly improve.

Fuck then I deserve 100% completion for Super Meat Boy just because I bought it, I shouldn't have to work for it or anything.

[Zagnut]

Fuck then I deserve 100% completion for Super Meat Boy just because I bought it, I shouldn't have to work for it or anything.

Nobody cares. LFR is never going away. No new hardcore game has risen to save the day. It's over.

[fixx]

Meanwhile the majority of what I presume you call fake raiders dont clear their intended difficulty that fast. The gating to LFR is an attempt to mimic the progression effect in a system which effectively has no progression. Seems you have a hatred against a segment of lesser skilled or committed raiders.

How about you think for a second first before trying to fling shit or it gets stuck on your own face again.

Both normal and heroic (current flex and normal) modes open first and at the same time. If you can't complete either one of those during the month it takes for the last wing of LFR to open then LFR is exactly the place where you should be instead. You don't need to be heroic raider to see the end boss elsewhere before LFR, but you do need to be above LFR raider. Kinda makes sense now that you think about it, right...? I hope you're thinking this time what I wrote.

[melodramocracy]

So unless we use a hot air balloon, we should not fly, cause airplanes are just too easy, right? Unless we walk everywhere, we should not be allowed to go anywhere, cause cars are too easy, right? We should not be allowed to eat unless we grow the food, or slaughter the animals ourselves cause grocery stores are too easy, right?

We have cars, planes, and grocery stores because most people don't find reward in doing some things the hard way. A game should not have to be difficult, demanding, and trite just to make you feel like you are enjoying it.

I'm sure a game that offers me no difficulty or challenge of any sort is totally worth not only my consistent play, but a sub fee on top of it.

Seeing as this topic is all over the place now, to address the initial question: It's a pointless query, as you're defining rewards for 2 completely different criteria. One is an overall method, the other is a specific activity.

Raiders currently get rewards that are in-line with the difficulty they select, and it seems to work well for the most part as it currently is. If the system has a problem at all, it's the playerbase itself, which tends to act as more of a content gate than the game itself ever does.

[-Superman-]

I'm sure a game that offers me no difficulty or challenge of any sort is totally worth not only my consistent play, but a sub fee on top of it.

Seeing as this topic is all over the place now, to address the initial question: It's a pointless query, as you're defining rewards for 2 completely different criteria. One is an overall method, the other is a specific activity.

Raiders currently get rewards that are in-line with the difficulty they select, and it seems to work well for the most part as it currently is. If the system has a problem at all, it's the playerbase itself, which tends to act as more of a content gate than the game itself ever does.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/game

(1) : activity engaged in for diversion or amusement

It is possible to be entertained in a game without challenge or competition. I don't raid, or PvP, or chain heroics. I pet battle, farm, play the AH. None of it is competitive or challenging. It is relaxing and I do it for fun, for amusement. The people who make the game competitive, and demand challenges sure do exhibit a high level of entitlement.

WoW offers enough puzzles and challenges in the game as it stands. Which level of difficulty you choose is up to you. As you said, the reward is already equivalent to the effort. Heroics get the best stuff, LFR gets the copypasta. You get from it what you put in it. I would posit there are more fans of LFR than there are of Heroic/Mythic raiding, simply because there is no pressure with LFR, and customers still have a chance to see the content. If you pick PFR over Norm/Heroic, you get the loot you get because of the effort you put in. I'm ok with LFR gear since I am only interested in seeing the content, not making a living on a YouTube Channel raiding 60 hours per week.

[Tekkommo]

What do you think a casual player is?

Why wouldn't a casual be able to raid?

[Galbrei]

I don't think raiding in itself should be the reward to anyone, but I'd limit raid's rewards (loot) to raiders only. I wouldn't go as far as to exclude casuals from this equation though because I don't see how a casual player can't also be a raider. You can play casually and well at the same time and even beat heroic bosses this way.

[Kristya]

All content in this game should be available to everyone who pays their subscription fee.

However, top end gear as well as some unique titles and mounts should remain behind high skill/dedication walls. Like Mythic raiding, high PVP ranking, etc.

I'm definitely a casual player these days. If someone has way cooler gear than me, then they either A) are better at their class than me, B) have dedicated more time than me, or C) both. Either way, he/she put in the work and should be rewarded for that. I should always be able to see the same content as them, but I'm certainly not entitled to the same rewards.

[Raelbo]

Do you think that Raid content should be a reward for dedicated Raiders and not for the Casual player?

Raid content is an integral part of the game. It should be experienced by most players.

The harder modes of raid instances should remain hard to be a challenge for people who prefer challenging content.

If raid content were not accessible to casual players would that make raid content more of a reward for you as a raider?

I am not sure why anyone would think that. Locking certain rewards behind harder content, however, does make the game more rewarding for better/more dedicated players. This does not mean that said rewards should remain out of reach of weaker players indefinitely, just that at any given point in time there should be some rewards that are only accessible to the elite few.

[Orange Joe]

Twice. TWICE. TWICE IN THE SAME THREAD.

So you are the only person allowed to make jokes?



Checkm8. Again

[Duronos]

So you are the only person allowed to make jokes?



Checkm8. Again

I just wanted to say this for a long time to you... *Ahem* ... You have the cutest profile picture ever.

[Orange Joe]

I just wanted to say this for a long time to you... *Ahem* ... You have the cutest profile picture ever.

The cute little eyes are what got me

[IdiotCheck]

So to add LFR is in fact raiding.

It's really not.

You are guaranteed to down the boss, all you have to do is throw your body at it until you get enough stacks of determination to brute force it. In Flex, Normal, and Heroic, you do not have a guaranteed kill until the boss is on farm. You need to know the mechanics, you need to know how the handle them, you need to know the basics of your role and you need to practice until it's perfect. In LFR you don't need any of that.

The best analogy I can think of is:

If LFR is raiding and people in LFR are raiders, then people who attend war reenactments are real soldiers.

[mysticx]

What do you think a casual player is?

Why wouldn't a casual be able to raid?

The purely semantic problem here is: What else would you call somebody who is fine with LfR as endgame and can't/won't "progress" to flex and up? (Preferably a non-insulting term, BTW)

I don't know why this debate keeps cropping up though, on the insistence of the "hardcore raiders" (Another contentious term), LfR-rewards in WoD have been neutered, they models are ugly, have no set-bonuses and the trinkets are flat "+X stats" without procs or on-use effects, what more do they want? Except for maybe LfR being removed outright, a large portion of the non-hardcores unsubbing due to lack of progression for them and thus cutting the funding on the hardcores' precious raids, that is.

[fixx]

You are guaranteed to down the boss, all you have to do is throw your body at it until you get enough stacks of determination to brute force it.

Oh how wrong you are. What you're seeing is LFR being boosted by people in heroic gear. Once everybody is doing the same 40k dps (happened during first two weeks of boost to 90 feature) the bosses aren't dying anymore... not even with 10 stacks of determination.

ou need to know the mechanics, ...
In LFR you don't need any of that.

Yes, you actually do. Almost every boss has tank swap mechanic that needs to be handled and can't be brute forced. In addition nearly every boss has a type of "fire" that will kill you if you stand there long enough.

[BenBos]

Anyone playing an MMORPG for longer than 3 months at 10 hours a week is not a casual.

So that's the complete player base of WoW really.

I laugh at people when they define "casual gamer"

Go out on the street and tell you are a "casual" by playing a single game for 10 hours per week and 99% of the people will say: "You are nuts".

-----

So to answer to the OP: there are no casual subscribers in WoW: only hardcore playing at several hours per week and no lifers who lost hundreds of days of their lives on playing WoW ...

Choose to which of the 2 you belong...

[Deleted]

Want raider only content?
Then pay 10 euro more per month then i am fine with it.

Or

Make ppl choose raider or casual at there account.
And make raider content but next to that casual only content aswell.

[Deleted]

Want raider only content?
Then pay 10 euro more per month then i am fine with it.

Or

Make ppl choose raider or casual at there account.
And make raider content but next to that casual only content aswell.

Understand the following: The 10bucks/month grant you the right to play the game. What you do with that, is your own choice.

[Deleted]

Does not compute, besides the fact that the two groups aren't mutually exclusive, Raiding being a reward for raiders sounds like a catch 22.

In order to be a raider you have to join raids, but in order to join raids you have to be a raider...