Hunters and Ranged Mobility

[Deleted]

Just close this troll thread already... A hunter relies on his mobility once you get him to 30% he cant use something like dark regeneration, they dont have dark bargain or anything like that. A warlock is a tanky caster class a mage is a more mobile caster class get over it. A hunter pinned to the ground is a dead hunter end of story. So complain all you want but getting rid of their mobility is not really that much of an option.

I cant see why this isnt fair in PvE either because hunters will do less damage then other casters while standing still.. so it should even out or leave hunters behind just like it does now in MoP.

[Muffinator]

Hunters' main defence is their mobility. They don't have huge self heals, spammable root/fear, and unlike casters, need to generate focus with a shit ability, which I'll add to the guy who brought it up before, hits like a wet noodle.

Steady shot and cobra shot are a joke damage wise, they literally just regen focus and refresh serpent sting, that's it.

The majority of their damage is from instant cast shots, which have always been usable while moving.

Hunters also got ranged while moving first, and it was unique. When they gave warlocks KJC it broke pvp for a time, because destro locks damage was hardcore AND they could full cast while running.

The cost for attacking at range while moving is raw damage. Hunters do less than almost all casters, but it's less bursty and more consistent, so yes I do think it's fair.

It's a tradeoff that hunters have had to deal with. They don't do super crazy numbers, but they can do everything of theirs on the move.

[TheEaterofSouls]

Casters hit harder than hunters do. if they could move, game would be unbalanced

[Arcanimus]

casters (as well as warlocks, for the red herring thrown in by Ryas) are getting huge nerfs to mobility in WoD.

Hunters are not casters. As such, they cannot be held to the same standard as casters when it comes to mobility.

Also, as stated, our mobility is our defense, in lieu of self healing and damage reduction that all casters have in spades (minus healing for mages, who have extreme amounts of control to offset it).

[Azarak]

Casters hit harder than hunters do. if they could move, game would be unbalanced

Casters hit harder, true. Casters do more damage, false. Hunters can do just as much (and largely more when it comes to burst) DPS as a caster. Hunters use a lot of smaller instant shots on top of pet damage and auto-shots; they still do a lot of damage. So this point is invalid.

[eschatological]

Again, pets are not only horrible AI, but easily kited/CCed/otherwise made irrelevant. A hunter's "insane burst" is quite easily negated.

[shamantime]

Again, this is for WoD. gate getting very large distance nerf and double the CD, burning rush is 4% a second, such a huge cost its not viable, kil'jaeden's cunning is now a cooldown not a passive effect, fel flame is removed leaving destro with only conflagrate for movement, literally all we have to move around with now is teleport (easily countered by vanish, shadowstep, charge, death grip, disengage, long arm + stun, frost shock root, etc).

Too bad I was referring to WoD. Not one other class has that kind of group utility you get with Gate. Classes have a mass speed increase but, not one class has ,what is a kin to, a group heroic leap. It is still good in WoD, just because you can't LoS an enemy in PvP every sec anymore doesn't mean Gate is all of a sudden shit. It isn't and every other class would kill for something like that. I know KJC isn't passive anymore but, it is a potent CD that allows you to cast most spells on the move, an ability that is unique to three classes in WoD. (See Spiritwalker's Grace and Aspect of the Fox) I don't know why so many Locks are surprised that they won't be king of the castle anymore. It's no surprise that Locks were going to be put back into their place in WoD. Blizzard just didn't want to nerf them in the middle of a raiding tier because so many guilds were stacking them.

- - - Updated - - -

Casters hit harder, true. Casters do more damage, false. Hunters can do just as much (and largely more when it comes to burst) DPS as a caster. Hunters use a lot of smaller instant shots on top of pet damage and auto-shots; they still do a lot of damage. So this point is invalid.

Keep in mind, Hunters damage is being balanced around the fact that they have all this mobility. Which is why they don't have any baseline damage CDs everything is talentable, which is why Stampede is no longer baseline.

[Lovestar]

First, asking Hunters in their own house if it's fair they're mobile is kind of like ... well... you can imagine lots of creative analogies, I'm sure. No surprises at the poll results.

Second, I voted "Yes", but understand my caveat: I think WoW's views on ranged mobility are ludicrously outdated and out-of-sync with modern game development, and I think it's going to blow up in the devs' faces during WoD when everyone realizes once again that "Wow, hey, things actually weren't more fun 6 years ago anymore".

In other words — Hunter ranged mobility should be toned down slightly (at worst) and everyone else's mobility should be brought way up. Because IMO that is more fun. Nothing kills my soul like sitting there glued to the floor hardcasting with nothing to do but stare at a bar filling up, it's boring and utterly ancient gameplay.

[Donkeywing]

What a redicilous poll, especially considering pve. I might aswell go over to the lock forums and ask if its fair that casters have so many DoTs but we dont. Just because one class has a ''nice'' ability or w/e look at your own abilities first before you start saying its unfair.

That being said, I dont like having my dmg tuned around the fact that I mobility, but thats just me

[munkeyinorbit]

I thought they got rid of Aspect of the Warlock. I didn't know it was still in the game.
Aspect of the Warlock: "A Warlock's damage increases in proportion to how hard they slam their face into their keyboard and how loud they scream about other players being OP and shit at the same time. Increases by 5% for every Warlock in the raid to a maximum of 125%."

[Ryanite]

Along with whats been said, focus, lower burst, ccable pet, herpderp pet, what we have is A. run away avoiding as much damage as possible while doing damage or B. if shit hits the fan deterrence an ability that reduces our effective damage to 0. We are also losing silencing shot and scatter shot for wod plus our pet's CC abilities, so we are left with counter shot, concussive shot, traps, disengage, deterrence, feign death and running away. The bottom line is it's all we have and pretty much all our cc's are focused around running away. Which is why I'm upset with the current proposed Mastery for MM, which for those who don't know adds a damage and range increase buff after standing still for 6 seconds, if you move you lose it effectively having 0 mastery on the move.

[Deleted]

How long has it been since Aspect of the Fox was removed and Steady became innately able to be cast on the move? A year and a half? More?

Hunters aren't casters despite how much casters want to lump them in with them. Mobility as a general rule comes with the cost of doing less damage than a ranged turret.

[Deleted]

Tell you want, give me the possibility to 3 shot people like a mage/elemental shaman or give me the self heals of a destrolock/boomkin and I'll consider my hunter has too much mobility.

[Deleted]

Tell you want, give me the possibility to 3 shot people like a mage/elemental shaman or give me the self heals of a destrolock/boomkin and I'll consider my hunter has too much mobility.

Because instant aimed shot > chimera doesn't hit hard enough already on a switch, oh. it does.

[Deleted]

Because instant aimed shot > chimera doesn't hit hard enough already on a switch, oh. it does.

MM is dead in WoD. Balance achieved?

[Arcanimus]

Because instant aimed shot > chimera doesn't hit hard enough already on a switch, oh. it does.

Instant aimed shot is gone in wod, and both hit like wet noodles in comparison to Chaos Bolt (.5s longer cast time than Aimed Shot for ~5+ times the damage, and ~3+ times more damage than Chimaera) and Lava Burst (which has a shorter cast time than Aimed Shot and shorter base cooldown than Chimaera).Direct comparisons will get neither of us anywhere.


Hunters are mobile because mobility is our best defense. Deterrence is only a stopgap for when you A: Can't move, or B: Can't move far enough. It doesn't even provide interesting gameplay options like the ability to use it offensively because it prevents us from attacking. It's often touted as an immunity. It's not. There is a laundry list of abilities that pierce through it. DoTs do damage through it. On top of this, its a FIVE second duration with a base cooldown of 180 seconds. Three minutes. That's the extent of our legitimate damage reduction and defense(Barring Iron Hawk, for which we sacrifice our only self healing capability).

The fact is, if you are getting beat by a hunter, it's not because we're unstoppable PvP gods, nor is it because your class needs a buff. It's for one of three reasons:
1.) You got outplayed.
2.) You aren't very good.
3.) You underestimated that player.

Complain less, practice more.

[Deleted]

Instant aimed shot is gone in wod, and both hit like wet noodles in comparison to Chaos Bolt (.5s longer cast time than Aimed Shot for ~5+ times the damage, and ~3+ times more damage than Chimaera) and Lava Burst (which has a shorter cast time than Aimed Shot and shorter base cooldown than Chimaera).Direct comparisons will get neither of us anywhere.


Hunters are mobile because mobility is our best defense. Deterrence is only a stopgap for when you A: Can't move, or B: Can't move far enough. It doesn't even provide interesting gameplay options like the ability to use it offensively because it prevents us from attacking. It's often touted as an immunity. It's not. There is a laundry list of abilities that pierce through it. DoTs do damage through it. On top of this, its a FIVE second duration with a base cooldown of 180 seconds. Three minutes. That's the extent of our legitimate damage reduction and defense(Barring Iron Hawk, for which we sacrifice our only self healing capability).

The fact is, if you are getting beat by a hunter, it's not because we're unstoppable PvP gods, nor is it because your class needs a buff. It's for one of three reasons:
1.) You got outplayed.
2.) You aren't very good.
3.) You underestimated that player.

Complain less, practice more.

I lacked knowledge for WoD - Reactionary response to the poster i previously quoted. Are self heals and 3 shots happening in the WoD beta? I had only heard of Sudden Death, but that's been nerfed.

I agree that a hunters defense is mobility. They can't be offense through their defensive cooldowns.

Hunters are very strong, and very popular in PvP currently now though, due to fire and forget CC and multiple ways to easily make space. I've always found fighting other ranged characters quite awkward as a hunter though, as you kind of just take their damage to your face unless you weave interrupting abilities correctly (burning through your cc).

Hunters should stay Mobile, as long as their fire and forget crowd control is toned down, like Wyvern Sting receiving its much needed 1.5s cast time.

[Itisamuh]

Personally I don't think it's fair, but I wouldn't have a problem with it if hunters had some mechanical weakness to exploit (such as their old dead zone.) It's kind of ridiculous to me that they're the only class that's basically got free reign at all times. They can't be silenced, interrupted, kited or dead-zoned. If there'd at least be a penalty to damage while moving I'd probably be okay with it. But when they're killing me faster than any hard caster or melee can while not having a weakness, there's, well, a problem.

[Fullmetal89]

Personally I don't think it's fair, but I wouldn't have a problem with it if hunters had some mechanical weakness to exploit (such as their old dead zone.) It's kind of ridiculous to me that they're the only class that's basically got free reign at all times. They can't be silenced, interrupted, kited or dead-zoned. If there'd at least be a penalty to damage while moving I'd probably be okay with it. But when they're killing me faster than any hard caster or melee can while not having a weakness, there's, well, a problem.

While that's true to some extent, they do have some of the worst defensive CD's in the game. I mean as a Warlock I can move most of the time and punish people while doing it. If people pile up on me I have several options to help me survive. Hunters have what? broken disengage which breaks on charge and 30% dmg reduction from deterrence (which is constantly going through nerfs).

[Littlepinch]

Well honestly that's part of the problem. Pop all your cooldowns and then just double deter while your pets do all the damage XD

This made me lol. If you think all a bm hunter has to do to kill someone is pop all cds and deter 2 times, you sir never played a hunter.

We can't even Kill Command while deter.......

I also lol'd at someone saying disengage is a counter to lock teleport bwahahaha