Anyone feel like the KJC nerf has ruined the Warlock class?

[luckydevours]

From Shamans who are soooo gimped cause no lightning bolt on the move which apparently causes all major shaman Raiders to switch class to this 12th or so "KJC nerf runied Warlocks" thread, in every class forums the Sky is falling.

Newsflash: If everyone gets nerfed, no one is.

Do you even read and understand the nonsense you are posting here? Saying that nobody is nerfed when every class gets nerfed and glossing over your own fact that only Warlocks and Shamans get nerfed is kind of , i don't know, stupid?

Besides that i always thought that people who are complaning about other people complaining are a bit ridiculous.

[Cocobutters]

No
10 Words.

[Deleted]

From Shamans who are soooo gimped cause no lightning bolt on the move which apparently causes all major shaman Raiders to switch class to this 12th or so "KJC nerf runied Warlocks" thread, in every class forums the Sky is falling.

Newsflash: If everyone gets nerfed, no one is.

Newsflash: Melee have lost no mobility.

[Zevoa]

TBH... KJC is probably the main reason I continued to play WoW.

LOL 10chars.

[Shamran]

From Shamans who are soooo gimped cause no lightning bolt on the move which apparently causes all major shaman Raiders to switch class to this 12th or so "KJC nerf runied Warlocks" thread, in every class forums the Sky is falling.

Newsflash: If everyone gets nerfed, no one is.

Except, as demonstrated elsewhere on this forum, Warlocks and Shamans are, in fact, the only ranged classes having their damage-on-the-move toolkit reduced. Other classes, quite the opposite.

[Deleted]

It's just a matter of opinion

I for once think that having destro top dps ruined warlock as a class

destro is shit, you can play it blind... I hope no one plays it in WoD

my opinion ofc

[Deleted]

I won't say I peruse these forums all too often, but almost everytime I do, there's atleast one thread about how fucked/ruined/destroyed the Warlock class is/was/will be.

[Fenzha]

I won't say I peruse these forums all too often, but almost everytime I do, there's atleast one thread about how fucked/ruined/destroyed the Warlock class is/was/will be.

That's because Blizz are awful at balancing/tuning warlocks

[Brusalk]

That's because Blizz are awful at balancing/tuning warlocks

So bad that in MoP it was basically a given that we'd be getting damage tuning hotfixes a few weeks into the tier to either fix something overpowered, or compensate for a lack of stat scaling by buffing spell coefficients.

[Xanattos]

It's just a matter of opinion

I for once think that having destro top dps ruined warlock as a class

destro is shit, you can play it blind... I hope no one plays it in WoD

my opinion ofc

See, my opinion is that affliction is this way. Obviously you can't play destro blind perfectly and I can't play aff perfectly but seriously, mouse over macro for soulswap and you literally hit 1 button for 80+% of the fight and top the meter for your raid. Again I'm not saying I am playing it optimally but I've finished over 1mil on protectors with suboptimal gear.

[Alroxas]

Being able to cast and move at the same time makes a game feel much more fluid and enjoyable.

Hi, I'd like to introduce you to this class called Hunters. They can move and cast at the same time!

Same here, and this is why I play a mage mostly, as they're less "turrety", however they've been mucked about quite a bit, too.

"We want to tone down caster movement, bring it back to its roots..."
*Goes out an creates Aspect of the Fox*

Here's the bottom line problem folks: if you can DPS while moving (and do a decent amount of DPS while moving) then there is no good reason to bring a melee into a raid encounter over a ranged DPS. Considering that rDPS can also target switch faster than mDPS, there's even less incentive to bring mDPS. So you might be tempted to say, well just design better raid encounters. Like a mechanic that prevents spells from being cast, i.e. Thok's screech, but that then also limits your healers as well.

In regards to Aspect of the Fox, look at it as utility that pure DPS classes can bring over hybird classes. Now, there is an additional very good reason to have a few hunters in a raid (DPS while moving for 6s/3m CD). It's very similar to the addition of "Amplify Magic" to mages, it's now extra utility that a pure DPS class can bring to the raid.

Warlocks, as you already know, bring so much utility that they had to reduce their utility as it stands.

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With no Felflame and No instant cast dots to refresh, We are being reduced to immobile dps turrets....which is very static and very very anti-fun imo

So casting RoF is a DPS loss then? And what happened to Conflag? I don't remember that being removed. Also isn't Shadowburn still an instant cast?

As for immobile DPS turrents, see my earlier response about hunters...

[Brusalk]

Hi, I'd like to introduce you to this class called Hunters. They can move and cast at the same time!




Here's the bottom line problem folks: if you can DPS while moving (and do a decent amount of DPS while moving) then there is no good reason to bring a melee into a raid encounter over a ranged DPS. Considering that rDPS can also target switch faster than mDPS, there's even less incentive to bring mDPS. So you might be tempted to say, well just design better raid encounters. Like a mechanic that prevents spells from being cast, i.e. Thok's screech, but that then also limits your healers as well.

In regards to Aspect of the Fox, look at it as utility that pure DPS classes can bring over hybird classes. Now, there is an additional very good reason to have a few hunters in a raid (DPS while moving for 6s/3m CD). It's very similar to the addition of "Amplify Magic" to mages, it's now extra utility that a pure DPS class can bring to the raid.

Warlocks, as you already know, bring so much utility that they had to reduce their utility as it stands.

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So casting RoF is a DPS loss then? And what happened to Conflag? I don't remember that being removed. Also isn't Shadowburn still an instant cast?

As for immobile DPS turrents, you could reroll hunter...

Doing something while moving does not mean doing FULL DAMAGE while moving. It is totally possible and reasonable for ranged to have SOMETHING to do while moving around but at reduced damage output while melee have the advantage of doing SOMETHING while moving but at full damage.

DAMAGE TUNING != MECHANICS


Warlocks have no real stackable raid utility anymore. Healthstones are no longer utility, soulstones don't count, and you maybe might use 1 gateway in an encounter. You'd basically never have a need for more than 1 gateway anymore.


RoF is one button ever 8 seconds. Conflag is used rotationally and can at best be one GCD every 12ish seconds. Shadowburn must be saved for its optimal time regardless of when you're moving. Just because you're moving and Shadowburn is instant doesn't mean that you should actually cast Shadowburn. It's our consumer; our big hitter. We're going to cast Shadowburn when it's correct to cast Shadowburn, and whether you happen to be moving when that happens is gravy, not planned.

[Xanattos]

Warlocks, as you already know, bring so much utility that they had to reduce their utility as it stands.

Not really sure if you are serious here or trolling, but what is this massive utility that we bring that is not done better by a profession (tonics from first aid) or by another class (dk brez is instant and druid one can be instant or close to it with glyph if i recall correctly). Other than that what do we bring other than self heals? enslave demon? demonic teleport is the only real utility that i can see being something that is worth having a lock for, where you glyph eye of kilrogg and your applications for the portal are increased. I am really at a loss to figure out what other massive utility we bring.

So casting RoF is a DPS loss then? And what happened to Conflag? I don't remember that being removed. Also isn't Shadowburn still an instant cast?

Yes Rain of fire is a spell that we can cast on the move and apply to where it should land, in fact, applying it every 6 seconds or so while moving is something that has been mentioned on many different threads on this site and others, however, if that is our true movement casting spell then that is pretty sad. Conflag has 2 charges and a long recharge timer. I am assuming based off your post you are not clear on how conflag works for destro exactly, so you don't want to use 2 charges in a row but don't want to pool 2 charges (obviously if movement is coming soon it's a different story or for quick ale burst via FnB), so you would typically only have 1 charge pooled if movement was not something that was planned several seconds in advance. Additionally, conflag provides that backdraft buff which decreases mana cost and cast time of 3 incinerates or 1 chaos bolt, however, it is on a timer, so if you are moving during the entire backdraft buff you have again gimped yourself.
Shadowburn works only below 20% and uses embers to cast, if you are moving and cannot generate embers then you can not cast shadowburn. If you are saving shadowburns for high movement time and not using during procs then again you are wasting a significant portion of your dps.
Will warlocks overcome the change to KJC, definitely, will be as much fun, for destro no, for the other specs it should not really affect them much.

[Deleted]

Not really sure if you are serious here or trolling, but what is this massive utility that we bring that is not done better by a profession (tonics from first aid) or by another class (dk brez is instant and druid one can be instant or close to it with glyph if i recall correctly). Other than that what do we bring other than self heals? enslave demon? demonic teleport is the only real utility that i can see being something that is worth having a lock for, where you glyph eye of kilrogg and your applications for the portal are increased. I am really at a loss to figure out what other massive utility we bring.



Yes Rain of fire is a spell that we can cast on the move and apply to where it should land, in fact, applying it every 6 seconds or so while moving is something that has been mentioned on many different threads on this site and others, however, if that is our true movement casting spell then that is pretty sad. Conflag has 2 charges and a long recharge timer. I am assuming based off your post you are not clear on how conflag works for destro exactly, so you don't want to use 2 charges in a row but don't want to pool 2 charges (obviously if movement is coming soon it's a different story or for quick ale burst via FnB), so you would typically only have 1 charge pooled if movement was not something that was planned several seconds in advance. Additionally, conflag provides that backdraft buff which decreases mana cost and cast time of 3 incinerates or 1 chaos bolt, however, it is on a timer, so if you are moving during the entire backdraft buff you have again gimped yourself.
Shadowburn works only below 20% and uses embers to cast, if you are moving and cannot generate embers then you can not cast shadowburn. If you are saving shadowburns for high movement time and not using during procs then again you are wasting a significant portion of your dps.
Will warlocks overcome the change to KJC, definitely, will be as much fun, for destro no, for the other specs it should not really affect them much.

Gateway. I never played normal/heroic ToT, so I don't know if it had any uses there, and I don't think I used it in Mogushan Vaults, Heart of Fear, or Terrace of Endless Spring. I did use it against Garrosh though, so that is nice. Unfortunately, gateway is binary in nature. Either it is useful (And probably almost mandatory), or it is useless, depending on the encounter. Amp. Magic does not have that issue, Aspect of the fox may have that issue (In fights with literally no movement).

Edit: Also, it should be noted that it is getting a pretty severe nerf in WoD, which further limits the usefulness of it. Lastly, it is clunky to use, and some percentage of players don't like using it (Or simply just don't use it at all).

[purebalance]

Welcome to being sent back to the ToC era of warlocks. KJC was not even remotely overpowered in it's first and final iterations. A lot of people are actually using AD right now instead due to being able to have more flexibility with dark soul. The original iteration had a way too severe penalty to really make it even close to overpowered. The WoD version is just dumb and will only be used on specific fights. Did this nerf specifically ruin the class for WoD? No, but it is icing on the nerf cake. The devs keep tweeting "warlocks are way too overpowered so you need to be nerfed to the ground" almost word for word. Yet mages and SP were worlds ahead of locks on most fights in DS yet didnt get the "to the ground" for MoP like they seem to be planning for locks.

Just be ready for the highest lock spec to be barely competing with the other classes' 2nd or 3rd spec at best.

[Deleted]

MoP warlock - completely overtuned in every department, KJC's first iteration was a prime WTF moment in the history of WoW and no, I'm not playing melee.
WoD warlock - should at least get back fel flame, but overall brought down to reasonable levels, where actually everyone else resides, even mages.

^ personal opinion.

[Deleted]

MoP warlock - completely overtuned in every department, KJC's first iteration was a prime WTF moment in the history of WoW and no, I'm not playing melee.
WoD warlock - should at least get back fel flame, but overall brought down to reasonable levels, where actually everyone else resides, even mages.

^ personal opinion.

Fel flame back for destro + aff, retuning on demonology, 2 shards on kill for drain soul (From 4 to 1 is just brutal). Perhaps some kind of raid utility besides / instead of gateway, due to the binary nature.

Those changes would in my opinion go a long way.

[Jessicka]

Fel flame back for destro + aff, retuning on demonology, 2 shards on kill for drain soul (From 4 to 1 is just brutal). Perhaps some kind of raid utility besides / instead of gateway, due to the binary nature.

Those changes would in my opinion go a long way.

All specs should have FF, otherwise as Demo we're just right back as 'melee casters' hugging melee range so we can abuse Hellfire for mobility instead.

Agree Shard returns seem a little painful, but rather than 2 as default, I think if Haunt is applied then that Shard ought to be refunded as well as the basic 1.

[Xanattos]

Gateway. I never played normal/heroic ToT, so I don't know if it had any uses there, and I don't think I used it in Mogushan Vaults, Heart of Fear, or Terrace of Endless Spring. I did use it against Garrosh though, so that is nice. Unfortunately, gateway is binary in nature. Either it is useful (And probably almost mandatory), or it is useless, depending on the encounter. Amp. Magic does not have that issue, Aspect of the fox may have that issue (In fights with literally no movement).

Edit: Also, it should be noted that it is getting a pretty severe nerf in WoD, which further limits the usefulness of it. Lastly, it is clunky to use, and some percentage of players don't like using it (Or simply just don't use it at all).

I didn't include gateway because as so many have already stated in multiple threads that it has become very niche and borderline useless. Our teleport would also be niche but since it was not mentioned dozens of times already I included it.

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MoP warlock - completely overtuned in every department, KJC's first iteration was a prime WTF moment in the history of WoW and no, I'm not playing melee.
WoD warlock - should at least get back fel flame, but overall brought down to reasonable levels, where actually everyone else resides, even mages.

^ personal opinion.

How exactly do you figure this. Every tier we were competitive with a spec. With the exception of gear allowing for super performances there was no cut and dry warlocks are OP broken until it came to siege at first. Then as other classes started getting BiS gear they were passing locks (before the 4/4 upgrade patch). With locks still topping some fights but other classes being competitive on others. As gear levels increase the argument for balance should almost be thrown out. It's been a year+ long tier, with an entire difficulty level of upgrades through valor. Destro has fallen in the ranks of several fights while affliction takes advantage of the faster kills and super gear.

[Grizelda]

Here's the bottom line problem folks: if you can DPS while moving (and do a decent amount of DPS while moving) then there is no good reason to bring a melee into a raid encounter over a ranged DPS. Considering that rDPS can also target switch faster than mDPS, there's even less incentive to bring mDPS.

Well that's fine. Then melee shouldn't need all those gap closers and ranged abilities.