"Feminism is not man-hating".

[nextormento]

This is indeed sexism, is it not?

It is, but Celista is spreading the kind of feminist bullshit that 'the real feminists' claim feminism is not about. And is probably unaware of it.

[Celista]

You are aware that males receive abuse too, right?
Males will shy away from admitting to said abuse.
Some males pose as females because they get better treatment.

The abuse is different. And it's internalized in different ways. But to imply men don't have to deal with that bullshit requires some amount of reality dismissal -and it's rather insulting, mind you-.

Men have to deal with abuse that is usually based on ability in games ("lolusuck1800 ranking", etc), which makes total sense as men put enormous amounts of pressure on one another in regards to performance. It's destructive, and it's definitely something that goes way beyond the scope of gaming.

What men typically don't have to deal with is women telling them they suck at games because they are men.

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It is, but Celista is spreading the kind of feminist bullshit that 'the real feminists' claim feminism is not about.

Like what sort of bullshit?

[DenniZ]

I always wonder when and why women started believing staying at home, looking after the kids, helping them, raising them, educating them, keeping your house clean and hygenic, preparing healthy meals is in any way inferior to the traditional man's job to provide income to that same household. Its an equally important and respectabel part of any normal household.

You are not less then the man in the household working for a living. You are of the same importance if not more.
Also interesting in this subject is the fact that the Rockefeller's seem to have been financing the women's movement. In order to destabilize the family unit.
One member of the Rockefeller family actually admitted to that as explained in this video.

A woman at home is worth every penny of missed income. Your children will thank you later.

[razski]

I find it kind of funny really, that real feminists have been saying this sort of thing for decades, yet the moment Emma Watson starts saying it, everyone sits up and takes notice.

[Gadion]

I always wonder when and why women started believing staying at home, looking after the kids, helping them, raising them, educating them, keeping your house clean and hygenic, preparing healthy meals is in any way inferior to the traditional man's job to provide income to that same household. Its an equally important and respectabel part of any normal household.

You are not less then the man in the household working for a living. You are of the same importance if not more.
Also interesting in this subject is the fact that the Rockefeller's seem to have been financing the women's movement. In order to destabilize the family unit.
One member of the Rockefeller family actually admitted to that as explained in this video.

A woman at home is worth every penny of missed income. Your children will thank you later.

It is perhaps not so much that they think it's worth looking down upon, but rather that they actually also have other aspirations and accordingly want the opportunity to pursue them.

[Independent voter]

I always wonder when and why women started believing staying at home, looking after the kids, helping them, raising them, educating them, keeping your house clean and hygenic, preparing healthy meals is in any way inferior to the traditional man's job to provide income to that same household. Its an equally important and respectabel part of any normal household.

You are not less then the man in the household working for a living. You are of the same importance if not more.
Also interesting in this subject is the fact that the Rockefeller's seem to have been financing the women's movement. In order to destabilize the family unit.
One member of the Rockefeller family actually admitted to that as explained in this video.

A woman at home is worth every penny of missed income. Your children will thank you later.

From what I understand women in Germany stay home and raise the kids and that country is doing very well. They call the women who have kids and work 'ravens'. I can't see why kids aren't a priority frankly.

[nextormento]

Like what sort of bullshit?

You just capitalized on a stereotype to fight another. I'm not doing this.

Feel free to answer my questions about feminist books to read though :].

[Gadion]

From what I understand women in Germany stay home and raise the kids and that country is doing very well. They call the women who have kids and work 'ravens'. I can't see why kids aren't a priority frankly.

From what I've discerned from my psychology textbooks, it doesn't really matter who it is that tends to the children as long as they do it in the proper, loving yet authoritative way- mother/father/grandparent/aunt or uncle.

The problem with this view is that it just automatically assumes that the mother would be the parent that brings in less bacon, would not like being the one bringing in the bacon and that the father is unwilling or incapable of tending to the children.

[Deleted]

A woman at home is worth every penny of missed income

Did you stop and think it might not be because they think they're not "worth as much", but because staying at home every single day, doing the chores you outlined in your post, instead of having a fulfilling job and doing what you love, might drive you insane? Perhaps it's more about the question of "why the hell is it automatically my job, as the woman, to waste my life sitting around at home, doing the laundry, dishes, vacuuming and other sort of cleaning, and taking care of our annoying children 24/7?" Perhaps they're wondering why it isn't an equal choice between them who stays at home? Why shouldn't it be the guy who stays at home wiping the baby's butt and the woman goes off and makes the bread?

Because of men who have this misguided notion that it's "their job to provide for the family", which is complete and utter bullshit.

[Celista]

You just capitalized on a stereotype to fight another. I'm not doing this.

Feel free to answer my questions about feminist books to read though :].

You think my statement about men placing achievement-based pressure on one another is a stereotype? That's surprising. I'm pretty sure I could dig up a couple of peer-reviewed academic papers that support that claim...

...anyway, it's been awhile since I read any books that aren't law or finance-related, I haven't read a book on feminist theory since undergrad. If you want to watch something on netflix, "Half the Sky" is pretty good Yes, it is focused on women, however.

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Actually, I had forgotten the film is based on the book, which I have read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half_th...omen_Worldwide

[Paula Deen]

You think my statement about men placing achievement-based pressure on one another is a stereotype? That's surprising. I'm pretty sure I could dig up a couple of peer-reviewed academic papers that support that claim...

Not to be a douche, but I could probably find studies that are peer reviewed that show kids who grow up in a house hold with a stay at home mom are better than houses where both parents work, or the family is separated. I am not saying I support that kind of thing, but those studies have just about as much sway over you as the studies you are saying should hold sway over nextormento.

[Deleted]

Did you stop and think it might not be because they think they're not "worth as much", but because staying at home every single day, doing the chores you outlined in your post, instead of having a fulfilling job and doing what you love, might drive you insane? Perhaps it's more about the question of "why the hell is it automatically my job, as the woman, to waste my life sitting around at home, doing the laundry, dishes, vacuuming and other sort of cleaning, and taking care of our annoying children 24/7?" Perhaps they're wondering why it isn't an equal choice between them who stays at home? Why shouldn't it be the guy who stays at home wiping the baby's butt and the woman goes off and makes the bread?

Because of men who have this misguided notion that it's "their job to provide for the family", which is complete and utter bullshit.

I'm so glad you said this.

You are yet ANOTHER example of someone who clearly thinks that gender issues are a one way street, that they only affect WOMEN. Oh no, the world is so unfair because women are expected to stay at home and take care of the kids. Newsflash: for every instance of gender inequality, there is an equal and opposite instance of gender inequality for the opposite sex.

In this case, that means that women are indeed expected to take care of the kids - but men have just as much pressure to be the one to hold a job to support them. What if the man wants to do the opposite?

The fact that your post is yet another one which victimises women and demonises men just shows how you don't acknowledge this at all and hence I won't call you an advocate for gender equality at all.

[Deleted]

Exactly the kind of hatred and ignorance I'm talking about and no feminism doesn't need to rebrand itself because a few people watched YouTube.


Almost as stupid as anti racism means anti white BS.

Racism is just racism not reverse racism. And sexism is just sexism but because guys want to deny male privilege doesn't mean MRA's have a cause.

The name feminism is counter productive to it's cause. You can choose to not believe it but considering the amount of people who support equal treatment yet hate the word feminist is overwhelming...that goes for both genders.

[Celista]

Not to be a douche, but I could probably find studies that are peer reviewed that show kids who grow up in a house hold with a stay at home mom are better than houses where both parents work, or the family is separated. I am not saying I support that kind of thing, but those studies have just about as much sway over you as the studies you are saying should hold sway over nextormento.

Actually studies have shown that there are benefits to having a stay at home caretaker over both parents working full-time in a dual income household. Don't ask me to dig those up though, I remember that from a class I took like five years ago (also not really sure if anything's changed since then since that isn't my field of study).

I'm honestly surprised that people in this thread think men don't judge men based on performance and place a lot of social pressure based on said performance, I guess I'll get around to looking for some studies that talk about that subject since people seem to be interested. Probably not tonight though.

[Paula Deen]

I'm honestly surprised that people in this thread think men don't judge men based on performance and place a lot of social pressure based on said performance, I guess I'll get around to looking for some studies that talk about that subject since people seem to be interested. Probably not tonight though.

/facepalm

You realize you are generalizing an entire gender, something Feminism very MUCH frowns upon right?

[Deleted]

Did you stop and think it might not be because they think they're not "worth as much", but because staying at home every single day, doing the chores you outlined in your post, instead of having a fulfilling job and doing what you love, might drive you insane? Perhaps it's more about the question of "why the hell is it automatically my job, as the woman, to waste my life sitting around at home, doing the laundry, dishes, vacuuming and other sort of cleaning, and taking care of our annoying children 24/7?" Perhaps they're wondering why it isn't an equal choice between them who stays at home? Why shouldn't it be the guy who stays at home wiping the baby's butt and the woman goes off and makes the bread?

Because of men who have this misguided notion that it's "their job to provide for the family", which is complete and utter bullshit.

Take your feminazi bullshit elsewhere, you are one the reasons everybody hates feminism. Nobody expects you to do anything you don't want to unless you live in those middle east hellholes where woman are still oppressed.

Instead of whining about a situation that dates from 40-50 years ago you should look at all the great things we achieved for woman in general.

[DenniZ]

Did you stop and think it might not be because they think they're not "worth as much", but because staying at home every single day, doing the chores you outlined in your post, instead of having a fulfilling job and doing what you love, might drive you insane? Perhaps it's more about the question of "why the hell is it automatically my job, as the woman, to waste my life sitting around at home, doing the laundry, dishes, vacuuming and other sort of cleaning, and taking care of our annoying children 24/7?" Perhaps they're wondering why it isn't an equal choice between them who stays at home? Why shouldn't it be the guy who stays at home wiping the baby's butt and the woman goes off and makes the bread?

Because of men who have this misguided notion that it's "their job to provide for the family", which is complete and utter bullshit.

Since when is raising your own kids not a "fullfilling" job? Why do you think staying at home and making sure the home is clean and tidy, the meals are healthy, the clothes are clean the kids get enough exercise and rest equals "wasting your life" ? And if you claim your kids are annoying you might want to talk to them a little more or should have not taken kids in the first place?
And having a paid job is not by definition "doing what you love". How many employees actually do what they love at their work? May be the first 10 years after that it becomes work. Something you do every day of the week except those 2 precious days of weekend where you get to spend time with your family. Stop idolizing a paid job as being the most important thing in life and thinking of it as THE answer to having a happy life. The only reason why the government and other shady agencies want you to believe that is because you need to start paying income tax and stop caring about your most precious and valuable thing in life : your children.
God am I glad my wife isnt so blinded by this urge to pursue a career. Get a grip, the things you do outside of work are much more important en enjoyable.

[Deleted]

Not to be a douche, but I could probably find studies that are peer reviewed that show kids who grow up in a house hold with a stay at home mom are better than houses where both parents work, or the family is separated. I am not saying I support that kind of thing, but those studies have just about as much sway over you as the studies you are saying should hold sway over nextormento.

No, you can find studies of children who are "better" (it's not the right word, but just going with the quote) in a household where there is 1 stay at home parent or a caretaker.

The only thing those studies show is that children are happier when there is something to take care of them because children love attention (well everybody of all ages does) and having nobody at home while both parents are away can lead to depression over time.

[Kerath]

I always wonder when and why women started believing staying at home, looking after the kids, helping them, raising them, educating them, keeping your house clean and hygenic, preparing healthy meals is in any way inferior to the traditional man's job to provide income to that same household. Its an equally important and respectabel part of any normal household.

You are not less then the man in the household working for a living. You are of the same importance if not more.
Also interesting in this subject is the fact that the Rockefeller's seem to have been financing the women's movement. In order to destabilize the family unit.
One member of the Rockefeller family actually admitted to that as explained in this video.

A woman at home is worth every penny of missed income. Your children will thank you later.

I don't see it as inferior at all. I have several friends that are stay-at-home mothers and more power to them. They seem very happy and fulfilled and I'm glad for that.
I don't want that for myself though. Women should (and thankfully, in most of the western world, they do) have the choice to be a stay-at-home mother or a working mother, or childless or whatever. Besides that, what if the man would prefer to stay at home and the woman wants to keep working? That's just as valid an option as the reverse. That's the arrangement my older brother and his spouse have and they're happy with it.

[Gadion]

I'm so glad you said this.

You are yet ANOTHER example of someone who clearly thinks that gender issues are a one way street, that they only affect WOMEN. Oh no, the world is so unfair because women are expected to stay at home and take care of the kids. Newsflash: for every instance of gender inequality, there is an equal and opposite instance of gender inequality for the opposite sex.

In this case, that means that women are indeed expected to take care of the kids - but men have just as much pressure to be the one to hold a job to support them. What if the man wants to do the opposite?

The fact that your post is yet another one which victimises women and demonises men just shows how you don't acknowledge this at all and hence I won't call you an advocate for gender equality at all.

That post does not demonise men... It asks why they don't have "an equal choice", then answers because of the misguided notion of there being one set parent responsible to do the out of home work. Actually what that posts asks for is the equal opportunity for men and women to choose to stay at home or go to work. In your post you asked the same: "what if the man wants to do the opposite?".

Offering both genders the opportunity to discus it with their significant looks like what you both want.

The oppressive system impacts on both men and women though, and as such both should acknowledge their responsibility to change it (obviously that includes men, so there is at least some part of the blame on us- even when ignoring how the oppressive system started in the first place)