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  1. #1

    6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft, Discussion & #HammerofWrath IRC

    In this thread we will be hammering out anything Retribution, as well as settling the groundwork for the optimal talent builds, rotations, and gearing methods introduced with patch 6.0. The following is a compilation of where we stand now. As usual, any and all of this is subject to change, and will be reflected as such in the points to follow.

    NOTE:These results now reflect the changes made in patch 6.1.

    Stat priority & weights

    --------------T17 Bonuses Disabled---------------------------T17 Bonuses Enabled--------------


    Our base stat balance can be summarized as:
    Mastery > Multistrike > Crit > Haste > Versatility

    It's worth noting that the above stat weights are derived from arduous testing. They're close to representing our overall stat balance for any given talent. Mastery is our dominant Secondary for all talent combinations, followed by Multistrike, Critical Strike and Haste. the value of these stats is such that depending on where your gear is at any one of those three could be better than the other two, until a sufficient amount of rating is acquired to tip the balance in anothers favor. Versatility remains our least desirable secondary, though not bad, it just doesn't compete well if it isn't paired with mastery on the same item. If you wish to find the values of any given stat for your character, it's my recommendation that you should utilize SimulationCraft to determine those values.

    Haste's value is very fluid, and continues to be a stat subject to plateaus, these points are purely theoretical, and vary from talent to talent. Should you choose to stack haste, or ignore it in favor of either Crit or Multistrike you probably will not notice any difference by any practical means. Despite what most simulations show regarding this, it is often best to find some middle ground when considering scale factors for haste. Human error and fight mechanics, in practice, will render these points largely irrelevant.

    T17 Set bonuses also greatly increase the value of haste, in some cases it will fall just under Mastery in value. this occurs most often with Empowered Seals.

    Talent Balance

    Single Target
    ---------------------T17 Bonuses Disabled-------------------------------------T17 Bonuses Enabled--------------------



    Two-Target Cleave
    T17 Bonuses Disabled


    T17 Bonuses Enabled



    Single boss, five adds every 45 seconds for 15 seconds, movement.
    T17 Bonuses Disabled



    T17 Bonuses Enabled


    The Simulations that the above results are attached to can be found here:
    Foundry - no bonuses
    Foundry - 2pc & 4pc

    This is a rough generalization of our 75/100 talents performance in a Patchwerk (single target) scenario. The Above results use a roughly six minute fight length to emulate this tiers patchwerk encounter - Gruul.

    Note: The above Foundry results use a single identical set of gear. It is not representational of an optimized run for most talent setups. only FV. Talent choices are fairly close, the only deciding factor in determining which talent you should use on a boss to boss basis is rooted in the niche strengths of any given talent. Thanks to the strength of our T17 bonuses and how well they synergies with FV, it becomes the dominant talent choice for most situations.

    Simcraft APL:
    Spoiler: 
    Code:
    paladin="Paladin_Retribution"
    level=100
    race=draenei
    role=attack
    position=back
    talents=0000000
    glyphs=
    spec=retribution
    
    actions.precombat=flask,type=greater_draenic_strength_flask
    actions.precombat+=/food,type=sleeper_surprise
    actions.precombat+=/blessing_of_kings,if=!aura.str_agi_int.up
    actions.precombat+=/blessing_of_might,if=!aura.mastery.up
    actions.precombat+=/seal_of_truth,if=active_enemies<3
    actions.precombat+=/seal_of_righteousness,if=active_enemies>=3
    actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
    actions.precombat+=/potion,name=draenic_strength
    
    # Executed every time the actor is available.
    
    actions=rebuke
    actions+=/potion,name=draenic_strength,if=(buff.bloodlust.react|buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.time_to_die<=40)
    actions+=/auto_attack
    actions+=/speed_of_light,if=movement.distance>5
    actions+=/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&time<2
    actions+=/execution_sentence
    actions+=/lights_hammer
    actions+=/use_item,slot=trinket1,if=buff.avenging_wrath.up
    actions+=/holy_avenger,sync=seraphim,if=talent.seraphim.enabled
    actions+=/holy_avenger,if=holy_power<=2&!talent.seraphim.enabled
    actions+=/avenging_wrath,sync=seraphim,if=talent.seraphim.enabled
    actions+=/avenging_wrath,if=!talent.seraphim.enabled
    actions+=/blood_fury
    actions+=/berserking
    actions+=/arcane_torrent
    actions+=/seraphim
    actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.seraphim.remains,if=talent.seraphim.enabled&cooldown.seraphim.remains>0&cooldown.seraphim.remains<gcd.max&holy_power=5
    actions+=/call_action_list,name=cleave,if=active_enemies>=3
    actions+=/call_action_list,name=single
    
    #Executed if one or two targets are present.
    
    actions.single=divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&(holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3)&buff.final_verdict.up
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&(holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3)&active_enemies=2&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=(holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3)&active_enemies=2&buff.final_verdict.up
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&(holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3)&(talent.seraphim.enabled&cooldown.seraphim.remains<gcd*4)
    actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=(holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3)&(buff.avenging_wrath.down|target.health.pct>35)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*4)
    actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react&buff.divine_purpose.remains<3
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&buff.divine_crusader.remains<3&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&buff.divine_crusader.remains<3&buff.final_verdict.up
    actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3
    actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react&buff.divine_purpose.remains<3
    actions.single+=/hammer_of_wrath
    actions.single+=/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&seal.truth&buff.maraads_truth.remains<cooldown.judgment.duration
    actions.single+=/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&seal.righteousness&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains<cooldown.judgment.duration
    actions.single+=/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&seal.righteousness&cooldown.avenging_wrath.remains<cooldown.judgment.duration
    actions.single+=/exorcism,if=buff.blazing_contempt.up&holy_power<=2&buff.holy_avenger.down
    actions.single+=/seal_of_truth,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&buff.maraads_truth.down
    actions.single+=/seal_of_truth,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&cooldown.avenging_wrath.remains<cooldown.judgment.duration&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains>cooldown.judgment.duration
    actions.single+=/seal_of_righteousness,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&buff.maraads_truth.remains>cooldown.judgment.duration&buff.liadrins_righteousness.down&!buff.avenging_wrath.up&!buff.bloodlust.up
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&buff.final_verdict.up&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=active_enemies=2&buff.final_verdict.up&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)
    actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&active_enemies=2&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power=5&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*3)
    actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power=4&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*4)
    actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power=3&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*5)
    actions.single+=/crusader_strike,if=holy_power<5&talent.seraphim.enabled
    actions.single+=/crusader_strike,if=holy_power<=3|(holy_power=4&target.health.pct>=35&buff.avenging_wrath.down)
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.single+=/judgment,cycle_targets=1,if=last_judgment_target!=target&glyph.double_jeopardy.enabled&holy_power<5
    actions.single+=/exorcism,if=glyph.mass_exorcism.enabled&active_enemies>=2&holy_power<5&!glyph.double_jeopardy.enabled&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc=1
    actions.single+=/judgment,if=holy_power<5&talent.seraphim.enabled
    actions.single+=/judgment,if=holy_power<=3|(holy_power=4&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=gcd*2&target.health.pct>35&buff.avenging_wrath.down)
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&buff.final_verdict.up
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=active_enemies=2&holy_power>=4&buff.final_verdict.up
    actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react
    actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=holy_power>=4
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&active_enemies=2&holy_power>=4&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power>=4&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*5)
    actions.single+=/seal_of_truth,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&buff.maraads_truth.remains<cooldown.judgment.duration
    actions.single+=/seal_of_righteousness,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains<cooldown.judgment.duration&!buff.bloodlust.up
    actions.single+=/exorcism,if=holy_power<5&talent.seraphim.enabled
    actions.single+=/exorcism,if=holy_power<=3|(holy_power=4&(cooldown.judgment.remains>=gcd*2&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=gcd*2&target.health.pct>35&buff.avenging_wrath.down))
    actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=active_enemies=2&holy_power>=3&buff.final_verdict.up
    actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=holy_power>=3
    actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power>=3&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*6)
    actions.single+=/holy_prism
    
    #Executed if three or more targets are present.
    
    actions.cleave=final_verdict,if=buff.final_verdict.down&holy_power=5
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&holy_power=5&buff.final_verdict.up
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power=5&buff.final_verdict.up
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&holy_power=5&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power=5&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*4)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/hammer_of_wrath
    actions.cleave+=/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&seal.righteousness&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains<cooldown.judgment.duration
    actions.cleave+=/exorcism,if=buff.blazing_contempt.up&holy_power<=2&buff.holy_avenger.down
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&buff.final_verdict.up&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=buff.final_verdict.up&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)
    actions.cleave+=/final_verdict,if=buff.final_verdict.down&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power=5&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*3)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power=4&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*4)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power=3&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*5)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/hammer_of_the_righteous,if=active_enemies>=4&holy_power<5&talent.seraphim.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/hammer_of_the_righteous,if=active_enemies>=4&(holy_power<=3|(holy_power=4&target.health.pct>=35&buff.avenging_wrath.down))
    actions.cleave+=/crusader_strike,if=holy_power<5&talent.seraphim.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/crusader_strike,if=holy_power<=3|(holy_power=4&target.health.pct>=35&buff.avenging_wrath.down)
    actions.cleave+=/exorcism,if=glyph.mass_exorcism.enabled&holy_power<5&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc=1
    actions.cleave+=/judgment,cycle_targets=1,if=glyph.double_jeopardy.enabled&holy_power<5
    actions.cleave+=/judgment,if=holy_power<5&talent.seraphim.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/judgment,if=holy_power<=3|(holy_power=4&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=gcd*2&target.health.pct>35&buff.avenging_wrath.down)
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&buff.final_verdict.up
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_purpose.react&buff.final_verdict.up 
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power>=4&buff.final_verdict.up
    actions.cleave+=/final_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react&buff.final_verdict.down
    actions.cleave+=/final_verdict,if=holy_power>=4&buff.final_verdict.down
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power>=4&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*5)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/exorcism,if=holy_power<5&talent.seraphim.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/exorcism,if=holy_power<=3|(holy_power=4&(cooldown.judgment.remains>=gcd*2&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=gcd*2&target.health.pct>35&buff.avenging_wrath.down))
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power>=3&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*6)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
    actions.cleave+=/divine_storm,if=holy_power>=3&buff.final_verdict.up
    actions.cleave+=/final_verdict,if=holy_power>=3&buff.final_verdict.down 
    actions.cleave+=/holy_prism,target=self




    Base Priority

    Priority
    (Highest)
    Abbreviation Ability Name Condition
    1 ES / LH Execution Sentence / Light's Hammer Cast on CD. ES single target, LH 2+ targets
    2 DP(-3) Divine Purpose If Divine Purpose has less than three seconds in duration
    3 EDS(-3) Empowered Divine Storm If Empowered Divine Storm has less than three seconds in duration
    4 TV5 Templar's Verdict cast @ 5 Holy Power
    5 HoW Hammer of Wrath Generates 1 holy Power.
    6 ExoBC Exorcism+Blazing Contempt When Blazing Contempt (Tier 17 bonus) is up, with less than three Holy Power, Generates 3 Holy Power.
    7 TV CD/Exec Templar's Verdict Cast if Avenging Wrath is up, or target below 35% HP
    8 CS Crusader Strike Generates 1 Holy Power.
    9 EDS CD/Exec Empowered Divine Storm Cast if Avenging Wrath is up, or target below 35%.
    10 J Judgment Generates 1 Holy Power.
    11 DP Divine Purpose Consumed w/ TV or DS when Divine Purpose is talented
    12 EDS Empowered Divine Storm Cast when available.
    13 TV4 Templar's Verdict Cast @ 4 Holy Power
    14 Exo Exorcism Generates 1 Holy Power.
    15
    (lowest)
    TV3 Templar's Verdict Cast @ 3 Holy Power

    Final Verdict Priority

    Priority
    (Highest)
    Abbreviation Ability Name Condition
    1 ES / LH Execution Sentence / Light's Hammer Cast on CD. ES single target, LH 2+ targets
    2 EDSFV^5 Empowered Divine Storm+Final Verdict Divine Crusader + Final Verdict buff up @ 5 Holy Power.
    3 DP(-3) Divine Purpose If Divine Purpose has less than three seconds in duration
    4 EDS(-3) Empowered Divine Storm If Empowered Divine Storm has less than three seconds in duration
    5 FV5 Final Verdict cast @ 5 Holy Power
    6 HoW Hammer of Wrath Generates 1 holy Power.
    7 ExoBC Exorcism+Blazing Contempt When Blazing Contempt (Tier17 bonus) is up, with less than three Holy Power, Generates 3 Holy Power.
    8 EDSFV CD/Exec Empowered Divine Storm+Final Verdict Divine Crusader + Final Verdict buff up with AW up, or target below 35%
    9 FV CD/Exec Final Verdict cast if AW up, or target below 35%
    10 CS Crusader Strike Generates 1 Holy Power.
    11 J Judgment Generates 1 Holy Power.
    12 EDSFV^ Empowered Divine Storm+Final Verdict Divine Crusader + Final Verdict buff up
    13 DPFV Final Verdict Consumes Divine Purpose with Final Verdict
    14 FV4 Final Verdict Cast @ 4 Holy Power.
    15 Exo Exorcism Generates 1 Holy Power.
    16
    (lowest)
    FV3 Final Verdict Cast @ 3 Holy Power


    Seraphim priority

    Priority
    (Highest)
    Abbreviation Ability Name Condition
    1 ES / LH Execution Sentence / Light's Hammer Cast on CD. ES single target, LH 2+ targets
    2 Sera Seraphim Cast @ 5 Holy Power
    3 DP(-3) Divine Purpose If Divine Purpose has less than three seconds in duration
    4 EDS(-3) Empowered Divine Storm If Empowered Divine Storm has less than three seconds in duration
    5 !TV5 Templar's Verdict Cast @ 5 Holy Power, but not if it would take longer to generate 3 Holy Power before Seraphim is ready. 4 GCD's or 6 seconds, with zero haste. Adjust accordingly for Blazing Contempt
    6 HoW Hammer of Wrath Generates 1 holy Power.
    7 ExoBC Exorcism+Blazing Contempt When Blazing Contempt (Tier 17 bonus) is up, with less than three Holy Power, Generates 3 Holy Power.
    8 TV CD/Exec Templar's Verdict Cast @ 3 or more Holy Power, but not if it would take longer to generate 3 to 5 Holy Power before Seraphim is ready. 4 to 6 GCD's or 6 to 9 seconds, with zero haste. Adjust accordingly for Blazing Contempt
    9 CS Crusader Strike Generates 1 Holy Power.
    10 EDS CD/Exec Empowered Divine Storm Cast if Avenging Wrath is up, or target below 35%.
    11 J Judgment Generates 1 Holy Power.
    12 DPTV Templar's Verdict Cast when available.
    13 EDS Empowered Divine Storm Cast when available.
    14 !TV4 Templar's Verdict Cast @ 4 Holy Power, but not if it would take longer to generate 4 Holy Power before Seraphim is ready. 5 GCD's or 7.5 seconds, with zero haste. Adjust accordingly for Blazing Contempt
    15 Exo Exorcism Generates 1 Holy Power.
    16
    (lowest)
    !TV3 Templar's Verdict Cast @ 3 Holy Power, but not if it would take longer to generate 5 Holy Power before Seraphim is ready. 6 GCD's or nine seconds, with zero haste. Adjust accordingly for Blazing Contempt




    Level 100 Talents - These talents fill the 'choose how you play' role
    • Empowered Seals, like the late inquisition, focuses on buff monitoring. Due to the nature of Empowered Seals design, its lack of any particular niche (beyond strong Single-target output) relegates EmpS to a flavor talent for those that enjoy the play style.
    • Seraphim fills an alternating burst/pooling gameplay method, very useful for fight's with frequent downtime or burst DPS requirements.
    • Final Verdict has the best cleave output, focused on proc based game play. Good for hectic fights, movement, frequent target swaps, etc.

    Level 75 Talents - These talents provide a method of how you generate additional Holy Power.
    • Holy Avenger, The most versatile talent in the tier, provides stable single target output with good burst AoE capability.
    • Sanctified Wrath is oriented towards providing the highest single target DPS, with moderate cleave and AoE.
    • Divine Purpose, on its own is the superior cleave/AoE talent, lowest single target DPS of the three.


    Notes & Nuances
    Seals
    • Seal of truth should be utilized for single target, or, if two mobs are present for a duration longer than the max debuff time of censure (15 seconds). This means maintaining two Censure debuffs simultaneously.
    • Seal of Righteousness should be used when three or more targets are present, or when two targets will not be alive long enough to take advantage of a fully stacked censure for more than censures duration.
    Cleave and AoE
    Final Verdict AoE
    • While using the Final Verdict Talent, once two or more targets are present, you will alternate finishers between Final Verdict & Divine Storm. Take note of the availability of the Final Verdict buff before using Divine Storm.
    General AoE
    • When two targets are present, EDS’s priority shifts significantly. You will now want to consume the buff as if it's placement were that of the Final Verdict rotation.
    • Once three Targets are present Templar’s Verdict is simply substituted with Divine Storm.
    • Once four targets are present, Crusader Strike is substituted with Hammer of the Righteous
    Glyphs
    • When Glyphed into Mass Exorcism, and when three or more targets are present. Exorcism will displace Judgment in the priority. eg: The priority for generators would become: HoW > ExoBC > CS > Exo > J
    • When Glyphed into Double Jeopardy you will want to cycle between targets to increase judgment damage dealt, so long as you strike a different target, each Judgment will deal 20% more damage.


    Seraphim
    To use seraphim optimally you will need to pay close attention to both its duration and CD, typically a good point to start planning for usage is 10 seconds before the CD is ready. Optimal Seraphim usage often encourages doing nothing, waiting for generators and Seraphim to become available. The length of the pooling period before Seraphim’s activation/CD reset should be roughly three seconds (or two GCD’s), to ensure at least two generators are available upon activation. Should you find yourself in a situation where you have stopped your rotation to early in preparation for the activation of seraphim, eg: a wait longer equal to or greater than two GCD’s, you can use Divine Crusader or Exorcism, even if you’re at holy power cap. We want to cram as many abilities into that brief 15 second window as possible. For this reason Haste has a higher relative stat weight (up to a point) while utilizing Seraphim. Seraphim Is off of the GCD, so pop it, preferably <200ms before your opening generator. Always align seraphim with your CD’s, i.e. every fourth Seraphim cast.

    All pooling should be done before Seraphim is off cooldown, as pooling afterwards will cause a hefty DPS loss by pushing back your two minute CD’s (Avenging Wrath & Holy Avenger), as well as potential Seraphim usage loss over the course of a fight. As a general rule, when attempting to factor whether or not to use TV within the aforementioned 10 second prep window you should follow this rough outline, while simultaneously assuming average HP generation rate of 1 HP per 2 seconds, 1HP/GCD during execute:

    don’t cast TV if–

    1. holy power=5 & cooldown remains less than 4 GCD’s (6 seconds with zero haste)
    2. holy power=4 & cooldown remains less than 5 GCD’s (7.5 seconds with zero haste)
    3. holy power=3 & cooldown remains less than 6 GCD’s. (9 seconds with zero haste)


    A linear increase in pool time proportional to the level of current holy power, pretty straight forward. If the mob in question is sub 35% (execute) minus one GCD from that pool time as execute HP generation increases.

    Empowered Seals
    Like Seraphim Empowered Seals is going to require greatly increased attention, What this talent entails is cycling through SoT/SoR to maintain the attack power multiplier and haste multiplier. To start, we will outline how we handle our opener, if you are not using bloodlust/heroism you will need to be in Seal of Righteousness and perform this sequence as your opening rotation.

    When not talented into Holy Avenger: SoR > J > SoT > CS > Exo> j > CDs/HoW> TV
    While talented into Holy Avenger: SoR > J > SoT > CS > Exo> j > TV4 > HA/AW+HoW

    Next, we will outline how to handle the seal ‘twisting’ portion of the talent.

    1. Twists from Seal of Truth to Seal of Righteousness Will need to be performed just above Crusader Strike in the base rotation, if Liadrins Righteousness is down, or, in place of Exorcism if Liadrins Righteousness is still active, but has less duration than the cooldown of judgment.
    2. Twists from Seal of Righteousness to Seal of Truth will need to be performed just before CD’s or above Crusader Strike if Maraads truth is down (or less than three seconds remaining), or, like Righteousness in place of Exorcism with the same judgment condition logic.


    Due to the current damage value of our Seals, there is no inherent need to quickly jump back to Truth after swapping to Seal of Righteousness. The swap conditions to Truth are similar to Righteousness, however the buff provided is far more important. For this reason, Seal of Truth is the seal we will want to have active during CD’s. This also means we will NOT ‘seal-twist’ during cooldowns. If for whatever reason, You may not be able to refresh Maraad’s Truth before you hit judgment in your priority, you can prioritize Judgment ahead of Crusader Strike and below Hammer of Wrath to maintain it. Liadrin’s Righteousness expiring is far less important, in fact, it is often optimal to let the buff fall off before refreshes, this ensures full use of the haste buff is dedicated to your damage dealing and not seal cycling. Try to refresh Liadrin’s righteousness before cooldowns, preferably less than five seconds before they’re available. Then make the swap back to Truth if you’re using talents like HA or SW, even if said Judgment clashes with abilities like Crusader strike. Empowered Seals usage with Divine Purpose isn’t recommended except for fights with heavy AoE.


    Final Verdict
    Final Verdict is played similarly to T16 SoO ret, with the only added exceptions of noting the availability of the Final Verdict Buff before using Empowered Divine Storm. Once tier 17 bonuses are acquired this talent becomes far more complicated, largely in part to having one of the more important procs being tied melee swings and not rotation activation events, like Divine Purpose, Divine Crusader, or Crusader's fury. This has potential for Holy Power loss with the push back of Exorcism and Blazing Contempt if it is not consumed immediately. A swing timer mod is recommended for dealing with potential Exorcism proc (CD reset) wastage. The other talent specs suffer from this as well, however, the cost is far greater with FV due to the increased damage that Holy Power provides.

    Trinket Rankings




    #HammerofWrath

    For those interested, a new IRC channel #HammerofWrath has been created to serve as a live discussion forum for the Retribution community (and the paladin community as a whole). Similar in pursuit and function of both #Acherus (Death Knight) and #Ravenholdt (Rogue). The goal of this channel is to expand our ability to quickly communicate, Theorycraft, and present new ideas. #HammerofWrath is open to both new and old players alike. If you're interested in being included into the usergroup simply click this link!

    Channel Rules & How to join



    Changelog:
    Spoiler: 
    Code:
    01/01/15 - 28/01/15
    -Updated HA/FV weaving. (APL)
    -logic refinement of Seraphim lockouts (APL)
    -Execute/CD Generator refinement (APL)
    -Cleave priority fix (APL)
    -Results updated to reflect tuning of 6.1 PTR.
    -BiS Trinket change, Forgemaster's Insignia replaced by Horn of Screaming Spirits
    -Final Verdict priority changes.
    
    01/30/15
    -Seraphim Execute and CD lockout now 100% less stupid (APL)
    -Empowered Seal twisting improvements (APL)
    
    02/07/15
    -RiP BiS sets, much redundant, such confusion, wow
    -grammar crackdown
    
    02/14/15
    -DC/FV expiration line added for those event heavy sims (APL)
    -NOT expression added to mass exorcism actions if four piece t17 is enabled. (APL)
    -tweak 5HPTV to not devalue Seraphim (APL)
    
    02/21/15
    -#HammerofWrath IRC addition
    -Updated talent & stat balance for patch 6.1
    
    03/18/15
    -updated trinket rankings
    -added two target and add fight sim results
    Last edited by Solsacra; 2015-04-23 at 02:22 AM.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome ujx's Avatar
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    Is 15% haste breakpoint still being aimed for in WoD? Then go for ms/crit/mastery? (For DP/FV)

  3. #3
    Yes, as far as i've been able to tell haste has very high value up until that point. I'll include another chart soon (among other things) depicting stats once that point is reached.
    Last edited by Solsacra; 2014-10-13 at 05:38 AM.

  4. #4
    Solsacra You didn't make a proper thread title. HOW CAN THIS BE THE SEQUAL TO MAGNIFICENCE?

    Also need a Highmaul BiS list since it's current for first 2 months maybe even 3.

  5. #5
    yeah, thats another thing thats coming. just need to do some other stuff first! fried my HD recently so the OP is gone.

  6. #6
    What a fun thing to do before expansion goes live!

    On the plus side you have a durable coaster now

    P.S. Your title still sucks donkey penis

  7. #7

  8. #8
    High Overlord Svayne's Avatar
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    RIP in pepperonis, Mastery.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Solsacra View Post
    rip anaxie
    LOL, that just made my night. But don't worry Anaxie, you have touched so many people's hearts with your love! And thanks for the work Solsacra.. EDS=FV^hp5 - means what exactly?
    Last edited by Doodledoo; 2014-10-13 at 08:05 AM.

  10. #10
    High Overlord Svayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doodledoo View Post
    EDS=FV^hp5 - means what exactly?
    I'm assuming it means EmpDS w/ FV buff up @ 5 Holy Power, but I can't be sure.

    Can we clarify DP(-4) too while we're asking?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Svayne View Post
    Can we clarify DP(-4) too while we're asking?
    DP with less than 4 seconds remaining

  12. #12
    Thank you both ^.^

  13. #13
    Deleted
    The stat priority is a bit wrong. Mastery should be a bit better than versatility without T17 ( tested on FV and Seraphim with SW ). And for example on SW+Seraphim with T17, mastery is getting worse compared to versatility on your table, although we get more HP > more TV and more HoW. This should be a bigger value for TV and HoW in our overall dps, which means: Mastery should get better.

  14. #14
    High Overlord Svayne's Avatar
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    What's causing Judge to fall behind FV3/4 in the FV w/ T17 priority queue, but not the base FV queue*?
    Last edited by Svayne; 2014-10-13 at 12:29 PM.

  15. #15
    the 6.0 hype is real

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Nice thread.

  17. #17
    how is our rotation looking for tomorrow? whats the string we should be using? ES > TV5 > DP(-4) > HoW > CS > Judge > EDS > DP > TV3/4 > Exo, Minus EDS? and put the DS proc in there or do the DS proc from tier when needed
    Last edited by bigitup; 2014-10-13 at 01:11 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Doodledoo View Post
    LOL, that just made my night. But don't worry Anaxie, you have touched so many people's hearts with your love! And thanks for the work Solsacra.. EDS=FV^hp5 - means what exactly?
    Solsacra wouldn't even be on these forums if it wasn't for my relentless peer pressure for him to take over my work. But I'm sure my antics brining the spec so much closer together as a community is my legacy. His stubborneas to not continue the thread title trend irks me though he broke contract

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bigitup View Post
    how is our rotation looking for tomorrow? whats the string we should be using? ES > TV5 > DP(-4) > HoW > CS > Judge > EDS > DP > TV3/4 > Exo, Minus EDS? and put the DS proc in there or do the DS proc from tier when needed
    Eye trinket and no fv means no dp. Unless u are peeping word rotation

    - - - Updated - - -

    Though eye might be worse than skeers without guardian CD not sure
    Last edited by anaxie; 2014-10-13 at 02:11 PM.

  19. #19
    ok so still with our regular spec. But I thought Eye is still cool for now but shit later on... Obviously I could be wrong since I never got a stupid invite to the beta; but from what I read previously that's where I thought we were at.... If not I regret all the times I passed on skeers trink.

    What about our DS proc from tier? Do we still use it the same way now?

    Thanks for the reply

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bigitup View Post
    What about our DS proc from tier? Do we still use it the same way now?

    Thanks for the reply
    DS from tier would be the EDS in your string above, since we don't get that baked in until level 92 iirc.
    Maegore @Maegoree Maegor#1377

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