[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Jackielope]

Im a bit confused about this patch notes...

Then ask about specific things you're confused about?

[tankred]

I'll probably still run sera most fights, emp seals still isn't attractive even given the changes and SOR is going to be a pain in the ass around cc.

[Reghame]

Well shit boys, remember when we said the might as well take away truth from prot? well they did >.<

Same with righteousness too! pretty sure command is only 10% single as well?

Glyph changes pretty big too, i understand the harsh words thing, but alabaster seems like it was just a blanket damage nerf ( does not actually hurt overall dps that high though so no idea why they did that)

Having EmpS being 20% haste and 2% healing is a big change though. if i remember correctly, that haste buff is multiplicative like most % buffs so it technically got a bigger buff that just 5% pretty sure someone posted the haste values to get to 50% when it was at 15% when the new haste changes went in, so we are now much much much closer to that sweet spot than before.

Im almost certain that insight heal change can be a balance problem though, blizz might want to keep an eye out for it. Dont need to have old warrior second wind up all the time for such a little cost in comparison.



On the bright side! insight is now the only seal you will sit in now! (because all other options were taken away )

- - - Updated - - -

oh wait, how does empowered seals work for prot when we dont have truth anymore?

Wait........ we dont have righteousness anymore either? wtf?

does command proc both haste and ATK power for prot? or does this talent just not exist for us now???????????????

now am all sorts of Fing confused.

- - - Updated - - -

If command procs both AP and haste, i think that talent becomes instantly the best since you can keep all 3 buffs up with minimal effort. what in the hell is this shit?

[mullo]

Well shit boys, remember when we said the might as well take away truth from prot? well they did >.<

Same with righteousness too! pretty sure command is only 10% single as well?

We're keeping Righteousness, the notes say that Command will turn into Righteousness when you level, instead of into Truth. Righteousness is 12%, I believe.

[Deleted]

Well shit boys, remember when we said the might as well take away truth from prot? well they did >.<

Same with righteousness too! pretty sure command is only 10% single as well?

Glyph changes pretty big too, i understand the harsh words thing, but alabaster seems like it was just a blanket damage nerf ( does not actually hurt overall dps that high though so no idea why they did that)

Having EmpS being 20% haste and 2% healing is a big change though. if i remember correctly, that haste buff is multiplicative like most % buffs so it technically got a bigger buff that just 5% pretty sure someone posted the haste values to get to 50% when it was at 15% when the new haste changes went in, so we are now much much much closer to that sweet spot than before.

Im almost certain that insight heal change can be a balance problem though, blizz might want to keep an eye out for it. Dont need to have old warrior second wind up all the time for such a little cost in comparison.



On the bright side! insight is now the only seal you will sit in now! (because all other options were taken away )

- - - Updated - - -

oh wait, how does empowered seals work for prot when we dont have truth anymore?

Wait........ we dont have righteousness anymore either? wtf?

does command proc both haste and ATK power for prot? or does this talent just not exist for us now???????????????

now am all sorts of Fing confused.

- - - Updated - - -

If command procs both AP and haste, i think that talent becomes instantly the best since you can keep all 3 buffs up with minimal effort. what in the hell is this shit?

Umm... SoR is still there (your Seal of Command is replaced by SoT as Ret and SoR as prot around level 20 or so). Not sure if we can gain the AP buff from Truth anymore, most likely not.

[Burnick]

I find this funny cause after the seal of truth and alabaster nerfs everyone was joking saying they should just remove em... now they removed em fully

[Deleted]

As much as I dislike the Seal twisting playstyle, I actually played with a Righteousness / Insight Seal twisting rotation for a little bit on the beta, admittedly it does suck that you have to manage uptime on both and plan your globals well ahead of time, I didn't find it a terrible playstyle. I prefer Seraphim, don't get me wrong - but if the difference between the 2 is minor, then I think Blizzard will have done a good job with the talents. Obviously I think Emp Seals should sim better than Seraphim, as Seraphim shines on fights where you have 50% uptime on the boss.

So if they have balanced the two talents, then Kudos to them as HS and Seraphim are both close as well. I would say that the difficulty in the talents would then be Emp Seals > Sera > HS, to play optimally, but there would be minimal difference in between Emp Seals and Sera.

The one thing I will say, is that I want these changes to be implemented before progression, or 1-2 weeks after the top guilds finish progressing. Which would mean they have to push 6.1 for the BRF release - which they may not be comfortable doing.

I am probably one of the biggest fans of them making HaW holy only though, I really think that it was very counter intuitive and a bad playstyle to follow for doing more dps, let alone when translating it to a traditional tanking style. And the removal of Alabaster Shield is fine.

I think I would personally make a change to the multistrike though, to make it more appealing. Right now, any incoming heals have a chance to multistrike based upon the paladin's multistrike and grant an extra heal for the multistrike amount. I don't know how much of a buff this would be, but I would prefer if multistrike gave effective health, like it does for both dk's and druids. So each multistrike would proc a shield that can be refreshed and lasts for 15 seconds. This would then simply make multistrike a much more efficient, but still very situational stat - depending on the healing comp, but it also would be an indirect buff to SoI, which would be a positive thing in my book.

[Deleted]

I don't like EmpS for the same reason I didn't like Inquisition; it can have the most awesome effect in the world, but it still feels garbage to have a GCD that doesn't deliver a visceral effect. EmpS is actually twice as bad as Inquisition @30 seconds ever was. It's just not that interesting to have a skill where the gameplay is including 2 "empty" GCDs every 20 seconds or so into your rotation. It really is the worst shadow of Vanilla design.

Honestly it would have to be far, far better than the other talents for me to ever consider taking such an un-interesting playstyle change.

[celinamuna]

I don't like EmpS for the same reason I didn't like Inquisition; it can have the most awesome effect in the world, but it still feels garbage to have a GCD that doesn't deliver a visceral effect. EmpS is actually twice as bad as Inquisition @30 seconds ever was. It's just not that interesting to have a skill where the gameplay is including 2 "empty" GCDs every 20 seconds or so into your rotation. It really is the worst shadow of Vanilla design.

You're assuming that seals are of major importance, assuming you don't really care about them, it's 1 gcd every 20 sec or so.

[Deleted]

You're assuming that seals are of major importance, assuming you don't really care about them, it's 1 gcd every 20 sec or so.

Depends what you're doing I suppose. Some people will want to try and stick with a particular seal on any given fight. It still has worse game-feel than Inquisition either way, due to the much shorter buff timer.

Still wondering what about CMs, too. We've had some significant nerfs now. A huge glyph got deleted, our ST seal deleted, and a nerf on Seraphim to boot. They're really going to have to keep an eye on it without the gem creep to compensate. Waiting to get time to actually put a group together and do them but it seems the longer I wait, the harder they're going to get just because of cumulative nerfs.

[Candlemaster]

Question for you people who are way better at theorycrafting/simcraft than me: What if ES SoR gave both the haste & ap? How would it scale then? Or what if they took off the gcd on seal swaps?

[celinamuna]

Question for you people who are way better at theorycrafting/simcraft than me: What if ES SoR gave both the haste & ap? How would it scale then? Or what if they took off the gcd on seal swaps?

It would most likely be significantly stronger than other 2 talents (at least it would be stronger than HS imo, Sera is still plagued by Sera + HA + trinkets + potion burst combos)

[Jackielope]

Question for you people who are way better at theorycrafting/simcraft than me: What if ES SoR gave both the haste & ap? How would it scale then? Or what if they took off the gcd on seal swaps?

Giving the third buff for the price of only two up would make it stronger than the other talents.

Getting rid of the GCD use for switching seals would also make it stronger than the other talents, and not by a small amount.

The revision done currently is the least of the evils right now.

[celinamuna]

Giving the third buff for the price of only two up would make it stronger than the other talents.

Getting rid of the GCD use for switching seals would also make it stronger than the other talents, and not by a small amount.

The revision done currently is the least of the evils right now.

I highly doubt that 1 out of every 19-20 globals is worth that much.

Even with 2, i'm not sure that it's stronger "not by a small amount", but i can see it pulling somewhat ahead.

[Jackielope]

I highly doubt that 1 out of every 19-20 globals is worth that much.

Even with 2, i'm not sure that it's stronger "not by a small amount", but i can see it pulling somewhat ahead.

Well, you were the one who said "significantly stronger than the other 2 talents." Based on that word use we'd be in agreement on the issue. Are you revising that claim?

[sexybeast]

Doesn't retri have 4 though, since they have 4 Seals that benefit from EmpS?

Gonna test.

Edit: hmm, not as expected... but it looks awesome.

gief ui plx!

[Jackielope]

Huh, so that's the EmpS art? Yeah, I can see why it would be annoying to only have two of those circles running when there are four to work with. The art change looks trivial though and could easily be done in a couple hours.

[Deleted]

gief ui plx!

If anyone else is interested, I could try to clean it up a bit (remove several unnecessary addons) and upload it. Do you want any in-combat screenshots btw?

[Ausr]

Meh, still ain't using EmpSeals.

[Deleted]

Come back to the Empowered Seals master race.