6.2 Retribution Theorycraft & Discussion

[Reghame]

How about making Seal of Righteousness act like blade flurry? different downside sure, but if it made all our attacks cleave and Truth did something single-targety, that might solve some of our AOE problems and make seals feel "Fun""?

we had something like this way back in beta where FV would hit all targets for half the amount if SotR was active. i dont think anyone hated the idea on it's own as well but they then removed the perk and gave us empowered DS and the new perk that FV has on it now, then they nerfed DS by 30% wpd to compensate....

as for the whole seal debate. seal twisting sucks and always has and this empowered seals shit is not even like it was but it is even worse to boot.

Using a good portion of your GCDs for empty GCDS (aka a gcd which does nothing for you, literally nothing) to then have to use another spell to actually get you a buff ( which you cannot feel at all at least until much later) then having to swap back on another empty gcd is just terrible. i have literally never seen anything like this in the game before. no other spec NOR CLASS has to use ANY of their GCDs and actually waste them on things that do not even help you immediately.

empowered seals is a failure. the only people who like this talent mistake how it plays with what it gives. no one will argue that the haste buff we gain from emp seals is good that is true. but the hoops we have to go through to get that and to keep the other buff up which actually makes up for a majority of the talent's dps is just ridiculous.

As a friend of mine would say,
THE AMOUNT OF STUPIDITY AND INABILITY TO LEARN FROM THE DEV. TEAM IN WORLD OF WARCRAFT IS TWO DAMN HIGH!

(insert random yelling hillbilly or illiterate bastard for more laughs)

and if you did not realize it yet, i do not like empowered seals at all. in fact, i dont think many of our talents are "fine" either and need a good fixing. good example is having unbreakable spirit in a party/raid utility tree..... or having zealotry in the game at all after the constant issues it has always had in this game.

DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON HOLY PRISM EITHER HOLY GOD!

[Sarenas]

THE AMOUNT OF STUPIDITY AND INABILITY TO LEARN FROM THE DEV. TEAM IN WORLD OF WARCRAFT IS TWO DAMN HIGH!

Exactly this!

[threads]

How about making Seal of Righteousness act like blade flurry? different downside sure, but if it made all our attacks cleave and Truth did something single-targety, that might solve some of our AOE problems and make seals feel "Fun""?

maybe if it was off-gcd.

i wish they'd just get rid of empDS

[Haaz]

I dont even know what to say or do at this point.. Sticked to my pally for 5 years now I dont even know anymore..

[Butosai]

I dont even know what to say or do at this point.. Sticked to my pally for 5 years now I dont even know anymore..

Hold it together you porker chopper. The balance patch isn't out yet, the world is not ending, the sky is not falling. Ignore everything on this entire thread because none of it is set in stone until the patch is live.

[Haaz]

Hold it together you porker chopper. The balance patch isn't out yet, the world is not ending, the sky is not falling. Ignore everything on this entire thread because none of it is set in stone until the patch is live.

I dont have much faith in the balance m8.. I mean, hows class balance worked out lately for u?

[Butosai]

I dont have much faith in the balance m8.. I mean, hows class balance worked out lately for u?

I'm just saying hold off on the doom and gloom until 6.2. Something will change, I garuntee it.

LoV could have the swap restriction removed

4 peice could be completely changed

We could get a plethora of different buffs to help us out

But most likely what will happen is

Fire mage buffs

[Deleted]

4 peice could be completely changed

I'll take the set bonuses as they are, could be a lot worse (and very nearly were).

[Doodledoo]

Fire mage buffs

Oh, this gave me a good chuckle...

[Xenocidic]

PTR build incoming. Everyone grab your helmets and hope for the best.

[Reghame]

I'm at work, but I assume Blade Flurry is off the GCD?


Eh, possibly. I think the dream is that they give a similar treatment to the other seals as well, maybe persuade prot to actually use the healing seal! :P

Perhaps something like this:
Seal of Righteousness: Your attacks deal 40% of their damage in a 5-10 yard area around the primary target
Seal of Truth: Your attacks deal an additional 25% of their damage over 15 seconds
Seal of Justice: Your attacks deal an additional 20% damage immediatly, and slow the target's movespeed by 50%
Seal of Healydealy (Yeah shut up I can't remember): You take 10% less damage and do 10% more healing

Numbers are pure speculation, but relative to eachother they're where I'd want them to be. PVE gets the censure dot, PVP gets the burst + slow, cleave is is less single target but removes the single target damage boost, healing seal is relavant for both holy/prot, etc etc

It's not quite as intuitive to use as blade flurry is, since the average new player isn't going to make a macro to swap between truth and righteousness (so it'll take up 2 bindings, unlike flurry's 1) but assuming these are off the GCD (which I'd love them to be) there's also some nice play to be had swapping into Healydealy seal before damage spikes as well, which fury warriors could do if it didn't eliminate 90% of their resource generation :P

i like that idea for seals but for insight i would do something like this

Seal of Insight: Your auto attacks and abilities heal you for 10% of the damage done over 2 seconds and you gain 10% damage reduction.

This would provide meaningful healing and a easier number to balance as well as fixing prot's low bas DR at the same time. this also puts a restraint on ret for pvp since focusing them will force them into a defensive seal that matters while cutting their damage. this however does not mean that the ret will lose ALL of their damage like it is now if your forced to wog and hard cast heals, just a good portion.

IF this were to be considered, id recommend a slight nerf to them (aka truth to 20%, righteous to 30%, justice to 15% since it is just a flat bonus to all attacks instead of just our autos like it is now.

and buto, i thought you were serious and was about to get really mad at you! then i saw the firemage thing and went lawl

- - - Updated - - -

PTR build incoming. Everyone grab your helmets and hope for the best.

your going to be waiting a while, PTR notes from mmo champ take so long to hit paladins. it will prolly hit us 3 hours from now

[Deleted]

my guess for the build:
- shoulder set piece mastery replaced by versatility reason mastery feels out of place on the Paladin set and vers is under represented anyway
- nerf to mastery sclaing since ret gets a too big DPS bonus out of it compared to other stats

Ps.: yes I´m quit positiv on the things to come

[Deleted]

So no changes to Retri in this Build....

Maybe next Build or the Patch after 6.2 or the Addon that is to come....

Next Changes need to be more procs, maybe all our Spells do 50 % less damage but Exorcism has a chance of 5 % to buff our damage by 500 %, or maybe a change to Divine storm it does 10 % of the damage but when you have used FV + 3 x Exorcism that it does 100x More Damage, but my favorite idea is every time you change your Seal in the next Content because you have to use Empowered Seal to get in an Raid, the Blizzard-"Class" Designer gets an Electroshock for giving us an Playstyle that wasn't good enough for Warriors so they took it away, Retri the Recycle Class of failed Game mechanics

[Lip]

They did change the itemization on the Paladin Tier, legs and chest now have Mastery/Multi while helm, gloves, and shoulders remain unchanged.

[RagnorZ]

Yeah 2 ms/mastery, 2 crit/haste, 1 haste/mastery... that's a bit fairer for each spec's different attunement stat.

[ujx]

Or they could, you know, have each spec have unique secondary stats. That would probably cost a raid tier though, too hard to program.

[Lumineus]

Yeah, now Holy is just going to complain until they change it back. Maybe the devs will placate them by reverting Holy Shock.

[Solsacra]

Well, they buffed the living hell out of a few trinkets, EDH can now crit; and Rumbling Pebble's secondary budget doubled. There were secondary swaps on several pieces, most notably Paladin tier- swaps to mastery that balanced out the sum budget of the set. With these recent trinket buffs and LoV being untouched, i think we may see some changes coming to its functionality.

Anyway, new trinket rankings. DC is in a respectable position, but is no longer dominant. Unending Hunger can now stack from Exorcism. This, unfortunately, isn't nearly enough. It may need to proc from Seals to get it up to par with the other trinkets; or it could be a trinket just not meant for Ret? who knows.

[Deleted]

Or they could, you know, have each spec have unique secondary stats. That would probably cost a raid tier though, too hard to program.

It's probably on their 'to do' list, along with having different effects from abilities in PvP and PvE, removing gnomes as a player choice and paying any attention to what people say when testing boring or annoying playstyle mechanics.

[Reghame]

there is still a crap load of haste on the off pieces if i remember correctly as well as crit.

having 2 more pieces with mastery is better for honestly all 3 specs since it was all MS haste shit which only prot likes half of that.

we dont have much time before the patch lands either, (i estimate the second week in june or the following one) so there better be changes sooner rather than later.