Mage dps still is low

[Heltoray]

LOL, how can you say VERY strong when according to every log on Herioc and Mythic, 50,75, 95% mages are middle to bottom of pack? What information are you basing this on? Sims in a short, no movement fight? Yes then we are strong. Please look at logs and justify your answer of VERY strong.

Sims show that arcane mages will provide the best single target dps of all classes at ilevel 690 or so with both other specs quite close within range. You better not be complaining here, because mages are damn fine this expansion....

[Mountain Called Monkey]

Why am I getting ganged up on for pointing out logs? So other classes don't have plebs pulling down averages? Method only brought Blatty to a few fights. Paragon only brought one mage and 3 dps monks. Great argument.

Look I addressed every aspect of your original post. I've already explained why you cherry picking from logs doesn't prove your point. Your own anecdotal evidence doesn't prove it either, especially when most other high-level Mages have little issue with the class besides play-style. I don't know what your point is anymore. I'd be a little annoyed if you were trolling but I'm not sure if you are.

Just looking at logs and saying "Hey! Mage's aren't that high in damage for any of the fights except one. Our class must suck!" doesn't help or change anything. In fact you only really make us as a community look bad. And it's not like you've been presenting your argument in a clear and friendly way either. When someone questions your point, you get defensive and aggressive all at once. Maybe not dismissing people's claims without looking into them or asking how they found them in a polite manner will help you get your point across.

Bottom line is; Mages are in the upper etalons for damage specs. Our niche changes drastically from spec to spec, we are incredibly gear dependent as a class, and the rotation for all three specs can feel clunky at times (especially Frost.) However this argument can be made for almost every single class in the game. As long as each spec preforms well enough to be a relevant aspect of a raid, which they most definitely are as of now, people will be bringing Mages for a long time.

[Wolfman1]

How is it cherry picking showing dps in 20000 parses for every boss? Other high level mages have stated publicly frost is middle of the pack -vykina. How is pointing to logs and pointing things out such as being very low a bad thing? Blizzard has already said they would rather bring classes up slowly vs. having to nerf. Nobody has given any solid evidence other then myself. "Upper echelons" ? Where did you find that from?

[analmoose]

This will be my last post because I am tired or arguing with people who make baseless claims.

I pulled all Herioc numbers (because as said earlier there are not enough mythic kills to get an accurate example) of the bosses and will give frost ranking out of each encounter in the 75%. Also as stated earlier frost is the most widely played and has the most parses. These numbers are from warcraft logs with 8k to 20k parses for average dps. In response to Invrnc as the most useless graph, i will look at specific fights:

Blade 5/24
Butcher 9/24
Tectus 22/24
Branken 20/24
Twins 16/24
Korag 8/24
Imp 18/24

Hardly far from top 3. For a pure DPS class with one viable spec ATM this feels low to me.

Just trying to point out some things. Thank you all for shi^^ing on me. Happy raiding and Merry Christmas.

Its a complete waste of time to come to these forums making any sort of sense or intelligent discussion, seriously. Everyone talks through their ass with their own opinion and never actually backs shit up. Find wall, smash with head, lose less brain cells.

[Wolfman1]

Its a complete waste of time to come to these forums making any sort of sense or intelligent discussion, seriously. Everyone talks through their ass with their own opinion and never actually backs shit up. Find wall, smash with head, lose less brain cells.

I'm beginning to notice that.

[Libretto]

Heroic parses are mostly irrelevant though. Any guild progressing heroic at this point in time which would actually bench a player because their class does mediocre dps according to WCL averages, is probably not worth raiding with anyway.

Mythic is all that really matters, and the mythic versions of the fights involve much more movement and complexity than the heroic versions do. Brackenspore adds two new mechanics that require movement to avoid, Kargath's crowd favor buff makes analysis of parses worthless (due to there being several ways to do the fight, some involving crowd favor some not), there's not enough kills of Imperator. Mages get brought to mythic butcher which is the true "dps check" of the tier, so if top mythic guilds are bringing them to that fight, then they are fine. Rogues on the other hand could have an argument.

[Mountain Called Monkey]

How is it cherry picking showing dps in 20000 parses for every boss? Other high level mages have stated publicly frost is middle of the pack -vykina. How is pointing to logs and pointing things out such as being very low a bad thing? Blizzard has already said they would rather bring classes up slowly vs. having to nerf. Nobody has given any solid evidence other then myself. "Upper echelons" ? Where did you find that from?

LOOK! Look at the logs you swear by as gospel! Look at the fight mechanics and look at the damage type and damage by spell of each class that reigns at the top of each fight! Everything is spelled out for you, all you need to do is look and piece together this puzzle you seem to create for yourself.

Each of our specs can fit a required role in each fight and that kind of versatility is hard to come by. Our single target damage is the highest in the game and this is proven by sims and the absolute absurd amount of Mages that fill the ranks in the only fight where a high dps makes a difference. Sure our AoE and cleave is not as strong as an Arms Warrior, WW Monk, or an Enhancement Shaman but that doesn't mean our damage overall is low. Not every class is going to be sent into the stands on Kargath. Not every class will be the AoE for the adds on Imperator. Not every class will be on the flamethrowers on Brackenspore. The argument that Mages can't out preform against classes that excel in the given scenario is a flimsy one. Especially when we have our own fight in which we excel in.

Even when you take the averages of each class for each individual fight you'll see that it's not as clear cut as you make it seem. For almost every single fight, the difference in damage is so minuscule. The only two exceptions are Twins and Imperator, which are fights where Survival > Damage (which is basically every fight but Butcher in Highmaul.)

To wrap my point up, Mages are fine. By no means are we the best damage class in the game, but we are not near the bottom. We do the job given to us exceptionally well and that's all there is too it.

[LET JIMMY RAID]

Mages are in a great place right now, imo. Sure, we're not #1, but we're up there. Even though I prefer playing fire, I played frost for almost all of Mythic progression, aside from Mythic Tectus(combustion in the last phase is great, and that's all that matters). I'll probably be playing arcane for Butcher after the holidays, but frost for Koragh and Margok.

Logs aren't the end-all-be-all, especially since progression is still going on for most of us. Many guilds, including my own, don't post public logs during progression.

With good usage of Ice Floes, we don't suffer nearly as much from movement as other dps classes. If your dps is in the toilet on "any movement fight" like you say, then either your strat is using too much movement, or you're not utilizing Ice Floes properly.

[Razorlor]

I'm currently playing Arcane, feels really strong atm. Our locks don't like me though. XD

[Kaldriss]

frost mage is one of the if not THE strongest dps right now....

[Recom]

I'm beginning to notice that.

You're not trying to start a discussion, you just want everyone to agree with you so why bother posting in the first place ?


Also not sure where you take your data from. If you're only interested by very competitive players, select 90th percentile and you'll see one (if not 2) mage spec in the top five for every boss except Kargath (because aoe) and imperator (lack of data).

Is mage perfect ? No and no-one said so but mage is definitely one of the best caster with a wide range of specs that each have their strengths and weaknesses so we always have something for every situation.

[Irian]

Mages are sitting uncontested on the throne of "strongest ranged dps" by a comfortable margin, which means that they're one of the most desired and powerful DPS right now as they're competing with many of the top melee - and out damaging them at later gear levels - while still having the ability to instant target switch, incredible cleave and their mobility is the best of any ranged DPS that's not a hunter.

I really don't mean to sound rude but mages are in an incredible spot atm and if you're not doing well then it's likely something you're doing wrong and not a problem with the class itself.

[evertonbelmontt]

I'm an outsider, but it's well known that between ranged dps, mages are one of the best. Maybe you're trying to prove the wrong point here. It's not that mages are weak, some melees that are incredibly strong (monks, ferals, rets for instance).

As a pure it sucks to lose to a moonkin too, but that's how blizzard are happy with it.
My advice is that if you're going to complain you are weak, don't be too greedy.

[havician]

Im playing Arcane IL 657 7/7N 6/7H just playing casual with my guild and noone beat me in Butcher or Blade, other fights im top 3. Mages are really strong and my teammates are not noobs. Ive been playing with the same people for more than 6 years.

Mage are OP this expansion if u complain then u lack skill.

[Chimpyman]

seems to be a skill issue with you then the class. considers mages are in a very very good place right now. go work on your rotation more.

frost and arcane are extremely strong. arcane being better of course. and fire catches up with better gear.

[ssviolett]

Accodring to Sim Fire will rox once we will get BRF gear. Today mages are not on top spot as we were in previous expansion, but still on good place, seems fair.

[Narwhal6]

I highly doubt the classes are balanced around Heroic fights.

Look at Tectus for example - due to how the fight works, Fire Mages do a lot better on Mythic than they do on Heroic making them a fantastic spec for the fight.

Mages do very well on Kargath and Butcher as well.

A lot of fights favor cleave which Melee seem to have an edge over all range in. Also...if the legendary Starfall damage /cough padding on Imperator really makes you feel inferior, maybe you should go play that spec instead.

[Deleted]

LOOK! Look at the logs you swear by as gospel! Look at the fight mechanics and look at the damage type and damage by spell of each class that reigns at the top of each fight! Everything is spelled out for you, all you need to do is look and piece together this puzzle you seem to create for yourself.

Each of our specs can fit a required role in each fight and that kind of versatility is hard to come by. Our single target damage is the highest in the game and this is proven by sims and the absolute absurd amount of Mages that fill the ranks in the only fight where a high dps makes a difference. Sure our AoE and cleave is not as strong as an Arms Warrior, WW Monk, or an Enhancement Shaman but that doesn't mean our damage overall is low. Not every class is going to be sent into the stands on Kargath. Not every class will be the AoE for the adds on Imperator. Not every class will be on the flamethrowers on Brackenspore. The argument that Mages can't out preform against classes that excel in the given scenario is a flimsy one. Especially when we have our own fight in which we excel in.

Even when you take the averages of each class for each individual fight you'll see that it's not as clear cut as you make it seem. For almost every single fight, the difference in damage is so minuscule. The only two exceptions are Twins and Imperator, which are fights where Survival > Damage (which is basically every fight but Butcher in Highmaul.)

To wrap my point up, Mages are fine. By no means are we the best damage class in the game, but we are not near the bottom. We do the job given to us exceptionally well and that's all there is too it.

Sims? Are you really so never mind. You clearly have no idea how this game work. Sims is average dps for patchwerk fight. In reality on movement figts which is like 95% of all bosess our dmg drop into ****. And what about fire? Why we have spec completly depending on our gear? There will be only 2 tiers this exp and i really dont think so that we will get into gear state where fire will be viable this expansion. Same for arcane useable only for like 1 - 2 fights. My guilds doest even bring mages into raid since they do really low dmg. And no we are not supostu by fine. We are supostu by at top since we are pure dps class and high dmg is what we are supostu to do.

And i am not even talk about PvP where mages are not even viable past 1k8 raiting.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/ranking/eu-us/highmaul/dps/ this only proves me right. Ye on ,,patchwerk,, we rock jsut like sims says. On rest of bosses we just suck hard as dps. Thats why my guilds doesn bring mages into mythic. We are not worth with our average dmg and not really usefull utiliti for raiding like rest of classes.

[Deleted]

IMO mages are a bit ridiculous right now and should be brought down a bit. like 5% nerf across the board.

[Deleted]

IMO mages are a bit ridiculous right now and should be brought down a bit. like 5% nerf across the board.

Might want to revise your opinion with arguments before saying something like that. Mages are fine stop arguing people. The problem is that monks are too strong, not that mages are too weak.