Its weird... but we hit enrage on M Ogrons..

[Deleted]

So we are now hitting enrage which is kinda weird considering most our dps are doing 21k+ with top guys doing 27-30k dps. The boss still had 14% left when we hit the enrage...
Logs:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Heres our best attempt, we had 14% left with 30 secs left to enrage, so we called a wipe..

[Snokey]

Losing people to fire, whirlwind , empowered mechanics. You are hitting enrage because your raiders are playing poorly. I didn't even look at damage and went to death logs.

Self explanatory clean up bread and butter mechanics and it's a kill easy.

[Gaidax]

Well, there is no ifs or buts about it, DPS is low and people dead, so you reach enrage.

Do more DPS, die less.

[Temp name]

Your dps is low, people die to stupid stuff. Try fixing that first.

Also, you have 5 healers.. Stop having 5 healers.

[Deleted]

Twins has 160m HP, and a 7 min enrage timer.
With 4 healers and 16 DPS+tanks, that is ~10m per DD.
That is 23.8k DPS on average. With tanks doing slightly less, and the healers contributing a small amount too ofc.

With 5 healers, it raises to 25.4k required avg DPS.

You guys had a avg DPS of 21.6k.

[Deja Thoris]

Whats weird about that? You lost 5 people by the 5 minute mark. Last I checked dead dps does 0 dps, not 21k.

You need 380k raid dps to kill him, you had 323k. Dead people cost you at least 40k dps and more in execute range which would have put you extremely close to a kill. You have a good 10-20 sec after enrage too I'd guess.

Did you want help or did you just want to point out you think its strange to wipe to enrage with quarter of the raid dead for a large part of the fight?

[Deleted]

i want help, so we can fix whats went wrong tonight. And as to deaths, yes im aware of that, we started to get lost every time we hit 5min attempts, our main problem there seems to be Enhanced WW+Pulverize at the same time, people kept complaining how they get knocked into the WW on vent..

[Daetur]

How many of those deaths were before you called the wipe?

If the mage and shaman who had died at 5:00 and the shaman who had died at 5:30 had lived, you would have been at 9% instead of 14%, I think, and that's what, 37.8 seconds based on your group's DPS? It looks like you started losing people before 6:30, so assuming that none of your raiders die to mechanics, super quick napkin math would imply that you can get the kill if you don't die to mechanics, especially since Twins' enrage isn't an instant wipe mechanic so you have a little extra time past 7:00.

The answer really seems to be "don't fail to mechanics." Even the above calculations are probably low-balling, because the actual DPS of the dead would have dropped off.

i want help, so we can fix whats went wrong tonight. And as to deaths, yes im aware of that, we started to get lost every time we hit 5min attempts, our main problem there seems to be Enhanced WW+Pulverize at the same time, people kept complaining how they get knocked into the WW on vent..

They need to position to prevent that, then. Especially if you're not pulling over the DPS needed to defeat the encounter, mechanical failure is going to be unforgiving on Mythic.

[Daetur]

Also, check out the "problems" tab on your WoL. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...view=execution

For example, you can see who is failing to avoid Blaze, and you can see who is getting hit by the splash damage and knockback of Pulverize because they aren't spreading out. Also, some of your DPS seem not to be double-potting.

[Deleted]

Pulverize seems to be your biggest killer, its one of the easiest to avoid just spread out. Its not weird that you hit the enrage with so many deaths, people need to avoid stupid shit

Also, make your dps use 2 pots and get that destruction warlock to respec affliction or demo for the fight.

[Drenni]

So i looked at replay of the log you have posted.

Raid is just all over the place, ranged are in the melee range (which shouldn't be except for roar stacking). Since they are in the melle, Pol's Charge insn't any way controlled, so many raiders are getting hit with it and get Injured stacks (that hurts a lot).

If you could manage your raid positioning a little better and dodge stuff (charges and blazes, its insane), you could drop a healer and probably kill it with your setup.

And your monk is bad, with his gear he should do about 5-6k (at least) more. ChiEx could be much better, he used a second clone (big mistake), he missed many Chi Wave casts, only 85% uptime on RSK (should be like 97%).
(Edit - same for the Arms warrior, with 673ilvl 26k dps isn't acceptable on cleave)

[Deleted]

Raid is just all over the place, ranged are in the melee range (which shouldn't be except for roar stacking). Since they are in the melle, Pol's Charge insn't any way controlled, so many raiders are getting hit with it and get Injured stacks (that hurts a lot).

Stacking in melee is viable. Avoiding charge shouldn't be a issue anyway...

Though my raid managed to kill the 2nd tank with it (twice), who wanted to take Phemos out for WW.
It was a... nice surprise!

[Octa]

So i looked at replay of the log you have posted.

Raid is just all over the place, ranged are in the melee range (which shouldn't be except for roar stacking). Since they are in the melle, Pol's Charge insn't any way controlled, so many raiders are getting hit with it and get Injured stacks (that hurts a lot).

If you could manage your raid positioning a little better and dodge stuff (charges and blazes, its insane), you could drop a healer and probably kill it with your setup.

And your monk is bad, with his gear he should do about 5-6k (at least) more. ChiEx could be much better, he used a second clone (big mistake), he missed many Chi Wave casts, only 85% uptime on RSK (should be like 97%).
(Edit - same for the Arms warrior, with 673ilvl 26k dps isn't acceptable on cleave)

Having range in melee doesn't make it harder to dodge charge. It might make it harder to dictate where charge goes but I'm pretty sure just 1 person can bait it. If you pull Pol behind a weapon every time and have ALL the raid except the Phemos tank there under him it basically retard proofs the fire, only having to strafe about 10 yards total to dodge the fire phase completely. There are many different strats for this boss and you can kill it many different ways. Some cater to maximum cleave uptime, some cater to retard proofing fire, some do a mix of both, etc. However, to say that range should only ever be in melee for enfeebling just isn't the case and it certainly doesn't make the charge any harder for people to avoid, at all.

As for the Monk thing, is better Chi explosion really going to give him a 5-6k DPS increase when the bosses spend about 50% or more of the fight out of cleave range due to their strat? I kinda doubt that. He is pretty low for this fight, even if they were spread apart the whole fight and he just had his clone on the other boss.

[Drenni]

Having range in melee doesn't make it harder to dodge charge. It might make it harder to dictate where charge goes but I'm pretty sure just 1 person can bait it. If you pull Pol behind a weapon every time and have ALL the raid except the Phemos tank there under him it basically retard proofs the fire, only having to strafe about 10 yards total to dodge the fire phase completely. There are many different strats for this boss and you can kill it many different ways. Some cater to maximum cleave uptime, some cater to retard proofing fire, some do a mix of both, etc. However, to say that range should only ever be in melee for enfeebling just isn't the case and it certainly doesn't make the charge any harder for people to avoid, at all.

As for the Monk thing, is better Chi explosion really going to give him a 5-6k DPS increase when the bosses spend about 50% or more of the fight out of cleave range due to their strat? I kinda doubt that. He is pretty low for this fight, even if they were spread apart the whole fight and he just had his clone on the other boss.

I should write that better, my mistake. Stacking all raid in one place is definitely viable, could be even smoother with well organised group. However if you look at the logs, that isn't the case. Many (really many) people haven't dodged the charge and almost died to it.

For the monk thing, ChiEx isn't the only thing he did wrong. For example (in addition to other) he missed even his third Xuen.

If the bosses spend 50% or more of the fight out of cleave range, you are doing something really wrong. Especially if you have WW, Arms, 2xEnha, Retri and 2xUH. You would lose a LOT of damage (which is what they need) and you would trigger their Agressive Disposition (which just makes the fight much harder).
Not sure what "their strat" you mean, just look at their Replay and you can see that bosses were most of the time in cleave range.

(Edit: Noticed the combat rogue down there. Used only half of his Killing Sprees and was sitting in one part of the fight for 16s with capped energy. Those are begineer mistakes.)

[Tehterokkar]

Our first kill was done with around 657 iLvl or something. Your guild is closer to 670 iLvl average.

L2P issue from your players, stop dying and teach your players how to play.

[Deja Thoris]

Our first kill was done with around 657 iLvl or something. Your guild is closer to 670 iLvl average.

L2P issue from your players, stop dying and teach your players how to play.

Woah, theres a skill difference between world top 600 and world top 6000. Thats a shocker!!!

(Whats the point of your post, of course its a skill issue, posting derpy shit like "l2p we did it with xxx" is just obnoxious)

[Djriff]

Woah, theres a skill difference between world top 600 and world top 6000. Thats a shocker!!!

(Whats the point of your post, of course its a skill issue, posting derpy shit like "l2p we did it with xxx" is just obnoxious)

Honestly its just more proof that ilvl doesn't mean everything. While it wasn't a constructive post, they do have a point. Your raiders need to stop taking avoidable damage at all costs. Golden rule of being a DPS. A dead DPS does no DPS. If you can't DPS the boss for 2-3 seconds because you need to kite fire or move for pulverize you'll make up for it eventually. All of highmaul is mechanics, once those are done even the hardest bosses will fall eventually. Also for majority of your raid being 670 your DPS is kind of lack luster. Make sure they are squeezing out every single ounce of DPS they can and you'll nab a kill easily.

[Sxq]

Enrage timer on that fight is actually somewhat tight if you aren't executing perfectly. You have a few dps that are considerably lower than they should be, but I think you guys will be okay as long as you make it to the end without losing any dps to deaths.

[Deja Thoris]

Honestly its just more proof that ilvl doesn't mean everything. While it wasn't a constructive post, they do have a point. Your raiders need to stop taking avoidable damage at all costs. Golden rule of being a DPS. A dead DPS does no DPS. If you can't DPS the boss for 2-3 seconds because you need to kite fire or move for pulverize you'll make up for it eventually. All of highmaul is mechanics, once those are done even the hardest bosses will fall eventually. Also for majority of your raid being 670 your DPS is kind of lack luster. Make sure they are squeezing out every single ounce of DPS they can and you'll nab a kill easily.

It's not my team, I killed it ages ago. I'm just tired of shit posts stating the obvious with a side dish of "look at me"

[Djriff]

I know its not your team. Just throwing some stuff out there for OP.