[Ret] Mythic Butcher : Best time to use Sac on tanks ? ( Clemency )

[Floross]

I'm in charge of freely using Sac on one of the tanks, but I'm trying to figure out the best times to do so. I wanna say I should have two of them up for sub 30, but is that the best way to do it ?

Thank you.

P.S. While you're at it , I'll take tips of any kind for this fight for absolutely anyone and anything. We're super close, so anything will help. Logs : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CZNJYyrh3RDHtGkK

[Rawrzillasor]

What we do is since we have two ret pallies is have each one of us assigned to a tank and around 25% boss HP start saving the tanks and when the first one falls off use the second.

- - - Updated - - -

As a side note we also bop each one of the healers so they can turret heals like crazy. Not sure if it helps or not but mehhh

[Deleted]

If the sac isn't going to be specifically called, then the time to use it is when you lose faith in your healers. For me, this tends to be when their health drops low and doesn't move up within a second (i.e. before the next likely hit).

[Tivadar]

What I do when a CD isn't being called is I have a tellmewhen that tracks the defensives on the tanks. When I see a gap and they start to dip a bit I'll cd

[DrMcNinja]

If the sac isn't going to be specifically called, then the time to use it is when you lose faith in your healers. For me, this tends to be when their health drops low and doesn't move up within a second (i.e. before the next likely hit).

Hell, it's usually DPS who die first so I Sac the ones with weaker Physical reduction or the lack of short cooldowns on defensives when he starts his Frenzy

[MBDTF]

What we do is since we have two ret pallies is have each one of us assigned to a tank and around 25% boss HP start saving the tanks and when the first one falls off use the second.

- - - Updated - - -

As a side note we also bop each one of the healers so they can turret heals like crazy. Not sure if it helps or not but mehhh

You can BoP the tank not holding agro in order to prevent him from taking any damage.

[rahkarn]

would be super cool if there was a thread specifically to discuss when to best use ret's utility.

[Makh]

The hardest part of Butcher isn't the tank damage, it's the raid damage. You want to use Sac when the *raid* takes the most damage, so the healers can spare healing the tanks.

Look at the damage taken charts, and you'll see that damage ramps up as Cleave stacks, and the falls to practically zero during/after each Bounding Cleave.

In my opinion, the critical times for damage reduction are shortly after when the Cleave groups swap - roughly 2/3rds of the time between Bounding Cleave. You want to target the active tank (obviously), and you want to have both CDs up to use during the 30% phase (obviously).

[sexybeast]

Yeah I mean as a tank I don't seem to dip out of control on m butcher. Infact for our first like 10 pulls I went Harsh Words. Only swapped it out cause of me healing the dps right near the end of the fight cause healers.

Lbviously I can only talk for pala tanks and bdk but these two classes shouldn't need an external unless they mess something up.

[Deleted]

Infact for our first like 10 pulls I went Harsh Words. .

Really ...?

[sexybeast]

Yup. Why is that such a big deal? If you use it correctly in a cycle with sera and SotR its a slight loss in tmi. People play that boss to be the hardest hitting boss is the world and he's really not.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=2

That's pull 10... Check all pulls before and It will show harsh words.

[Deleted]

Yup. Why is that such a big deal? If you use it correctly in a cycle with sera and SotR its a slight loss in tmi. People play that boss to be the hardest hitting boss is the world and he's really not.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=2

That's pull 10... Check all pulls before and It will show harsh words.

But you're repeatedly dying and doing less dps than our prot paladin did when he was the same item level as you.

[trystero]

But you're repeatedly dying and doing less dps than our prot paladin did when he was the same item level as you.

He died on one of those pulls at a meaningful time...other pulls were over by the time he dropped.

[Deleted]

The answer, as with any other external, is "when your tanks call for it". People who use externals willy-nilly without them being called for are literally the worst. It makes it completely impossible to plan cooldown coverage appropriately.

And to address the "well, my tanks don't call for externals" argument: Your tanks aren't too bright and/or they're ridiculously overgeared. Get new ones.

[sexybeast]

But you're repeatedly dying and doing less dps than our prot paladin did when he was the same item level as you.

When your prot pala did it sera wasn't nerfed by 25%
Your prot pala has scabbard
....

Please don't speak so highly of people and lowly of others abilities without knowing the facts. Also, read logs properly.

Much love

[Deleted]

When your prot pala did it sera wasn't nerfed by 25%
Your prot pala has scabbard
....

Please don't speak so highly of people and lowly of others abilities without knowing the facts. Also, read logs properly.

Much love

Our prot pala has scabbard? Like you can't. And don't give me the nerfs, he still uses it but obviously I can't compare him now to you as he has better gear. The fact of the matter is that you are dying , dying and dying some more when the chief role of the tank in that fight is to not die.

[trystero]

Our prot pala has scabbard? Like you can't. And don't give me the nerfs, he still uses it but obviously I can't compare him now to you as he has better gear. The fact of the matter is that you are dying , dying and dying some more when the chief role of the tank in that fight is to not die.

First the argument was about using Harsh Words for more DPS, so what your guild's prot paladin does for DPS is completely irrelevant. But if you're going to point out that he does more damage then obviously it makes sense to understand why that is, and one of those reasons is Scabbard. Questioning why Sexybeast doesn't have this trinket is a complete red herring to the original argument.

Second no he is not "dying dying and dying some more." Butcher is a wipe period after two players are down early-middle in the encounter unless you have absolutely tremendous raidwide DPS, and except for one pull Sexybeast was not the first or the second player to die. Maybe you're just pointing out the obvious fact that he died along with the rest of the raid when a wipe is called, in which case I'm confused as to why you're posting anything at all. Everyone dies in that case. Really I'm confused as to what you're trying to argue. Harsh Words is very obviously a DPS increase over SotR (this isn't an opinion), and Sexybeast dying prematurely caused just one of the wipes he had linked, as seen by anyone who can read logs at a basic level.

[sexybeast]

Our prot pala has scabbard? Like you can't. And don't give me the nerfs, he still uses it but obviously I can't compare him now to you as he has better gear. The fact of the matter is that you are dying , dying and dying some more when the chief role of the tank in that fight is to not die.

Lol... Your funny... You like 12 and need to hard on your tank do you? With all due respect please don't talk to me about tank dps. I finished up SoO ranked 17th for prot pala in WCL prot pala all star list, the guy your in love with ranked 71st... And that's not even the point here.

Yes I can have scabbard, if I'm willing to spank 95k on a trinket which im not. but what your saying is having a scabbard brings no dps increase over having one..? I'll leave that down to you being drunk/high/stupid.

Then we have the 25% nerf on sera. 250 BA, 250 Mastery, 250 Crit, 250 haste, 250 Vers, 250 multi loss for 15 seconds every 30 seconds over 4 minutes. That's 8 times, 2 minutes, half the fight. Cause that's not gonna be a dps loss either no? Lol?

Dude seriously if you want to live your life through your prot palas DPS then feel free but when your old, grey, fat and all alone please remember that you can always cry on his digital shoulders.

[Relimash]

Unbreakable Spirit + Glyph of Divine Protection = Don't take Clemency on Mythic Butcher
You really don't need 2 sacs anyway, my warrior tank has never called for more CD's than we had available on butcher. other tank is a pally so yeah... O.o

[PapaNasty]

You shouldn't need Sac for the tanks on mythic butcher, as he doesn't really hit tanks that hard. If you've got enough gear for your dps to all be doing ~30k, then your tanks should definitely have enough gear to tank him without dying. The dps are in much more danger of dying than what the tanks are.

In saying that, looking at your logs, your druid tank is taking a massive amount of damage, about 30% more real damage than your warrior.

I don't know much about druids, so can't really say for certain what's wrong there, but he's just taking massive damage. (From the looks, he's not cycling his own cooldowns as often as he probably should for a fight like this, on a 4min fight, I'd expect to see barkskin 4-5 times and for savage defense to have a massive uptime, but both seem to rarely be used. But that's just from reading the tooltips, and looking at a few of the 4min fights, I don't know how to play a druid tank, so could be wrong there).