BRF - best raid since Ulduar/ICC?

[Noppy]

Do Blast Furnace, then come back The other bosses are tuned fine, but Blast Furnace is way too hard. We are actually one of the few guilds that have killed it with lower than 680 guild-iLevel and it is a very close and punishing fight. Too close for a heroic mode.

Nearly twice as many guilds have killed Blast Furnace below 680 ilvl on warcraft logs than above.

[ddsad2212]

Undertuned? You're probably either fully Mythic Highmaul geared (so Normal seems easy) or you didn't do the actually difficult bosses in the raid. 4/10 Heroic? The first 4 bosses, if done in the proper order, are pretty damn easy, which is to be expected.

Go do bosses like Blast Furnace and Kromog and say they're undertuned.
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Well ya I ofc meant the boss I actually did, that's why I said they were under tuned, not the instance. Gruul-hans/fran-beast and flamebender are under tuned, that's hardly debatable.

[Tojara]

Yea no, there was little to no reasoning behind the raids lorewise unless they straight made it up(Sunwell). Everything was all "Oh look! A Baddie!" BRF looks awesome. For everyone complaining about the color palette....it is a forge and foundry, not a clown's dressing room.

How can somebody even mention Archimonde as a lore reason that TBC was great? They flat out stated later on that they just did it because the thought it was cool. There was no lore reason for even doing Hyjal, we literally just went there to relive WC3 essentially.

Certainly not championing WoDs storyline, but Blizzard at the very least is way better at telling and presenting their story now than they did in the past. Whether you like the story/lore or not is entirely up to opinion, but I don't think it can be argued that the way they present it isn't superior now than it was then. For all intent and purpose TBC was a disjointed mess where we just went places with very little explanation. Some might like the mystery of not knowing exactly why we are doing what we are doing, but the story in TBC basically boiled down to go there and kill those guys because we think they are bad.

I don't even like Illidan myself, but the way he was handled in TBC was so terrible.

BRF is really good and it feels like a giant fucking foundry. Doubt it will eclipse Ulduar in feeling for me, but the atmosphere is certainly there. I'd have to see in a couple months if it still holds my attention. Personally I hated ICC because of how much wasted potential there was. It was weak how we entered the place and aside from the spire itself it wasn't that interesting to look at. Not a huge fan of trash, but the place didn't exactly scream 'strong hold' of the scourge with how empty it felt.

[Xargoth6634]

So you're saying there's a ton of trash and that makes it epic? I think you and I have very different definitions of what constitutes a good raid.

[markos82]

I only hate the amount of the adds you need to kill. It takes more time to clear trash before boss then to kill boss...

[HitpointSC]

Oh I guess we played different expansions then. My experience from TBC is that there was close to zero lore anywhere. We just went into outland and killed anything and everything that moved, for no reason whatsoever. The one and only piece of lore development was the Kael'thas plot.

Well every raid zone was locked and required a long quest to get the key. So literally every single objective/zone boss was part of a quest chain and it all fit the lore. Maybe you came in after they removed the key quests, but TBC lore definitely made sense progression-wise.

[sarym13]

I just like being able to chose what we want. I mean Highmaul was like this, but we haven't had something like this in a while. Freely chosing

[FobManX]

I like that its not linear, but it doesn't have the epic feel of Ulduar. Ulduar was just huge. So far everything in BRF is so tightly compressed.

But I am enjoying the bosses so far, and it's much too early to be evaluating it as a whole.

[TheMediator]

Ulduar was just huge.

I don't see the point in making the area needlessly big with tons of empty space. Makes the place feel less alive. Ulduar was a semi-derelict Titan facility so a certain degree of emptiness makes sense, especially given the size of the Watchers, but BRF is a living forge-- it needs to feel like it is buzzing with activity, and the only way they could make it more massive in scope without drowning the player in trash would be to drain the life from it by stretching it out and making it feel less full of life.

[infinity46]

Undertuned? You're probably either fully Mythic Highmaul geared (so Normal seems easy) or you didn't do the actually difficult bosses in the raid. 4/10 Heroic? The first 4 bosses, if done in the proper order, are pretty damn easy, which is to be expected.

Go do bosses like Blast Furnace and Kromog and say they're undertuned.


Blizzard has never said that's their plan. Why do people keep perpetuating this damn myth? They said they might only do two tiers if time doesn't permit a third.

Took our guild eight wipes on heroic blast furnace before killing it. We five healed it and killed eat elementalist in one slag. I went into phase 3 with 90% mana and mana pot so we completely decimated the fight. I had around half mana when the fight ended so I thought it was pretty easy and simple after the first few attempts but definitely not hard.

Extremely fun fight though. Really excited to do it in mythic.

[markdall]

So, I guess some of you will say it's too early to say if BRF is one of the best raids ever released. It's mostly a matter of how well designed the mythic encounters are.

But we can discuss things like the setting, lore and the overall feel of the raid already. I can say that I was amazed. It feels EPIC. Most fights are not only very interesting mechanics-wise, but they also feel so good. Trains rushing onto the station and unloading hundreds of troops in an attempt to stop our advance, cannon barrages from the ship, all this stuff made me want to pound my chest during the raid. BRF actually feels like we're a bunch of heroes storming into the heart of the enemy fortress. It is what ICC should have felt like, but only the Gunship encounter (and LK to a lesser extent) did. Instead of swarms of the Scourge rushing at us from every corner, we got large empty corridors and halls and a few bosses inside. Even BRF trash feels like we have to fight for every inch of ground against a desperate enemy.

What are your feelings about BRF?

I would make one change to the game right now if I could, even over restoring flying to everywhere: I would let you put your back right up against a wall, and simply make the wall disappear and let your camera show your character from normal range. I'm in a normal BRF pug atm for Oregorger and they want us to stack tight in a corner. I can't see _shit_ and I hate it.

[Coconut]

Kael/Illidan lore and heavy blood elf lore, Archimonde. If you weren't interested in belf lore at the time then I can see why you'd not find the lore interesting or notable.

There was heavy blood elf presence, and pretty cool blood elf locations, but there was no blood elf lore showing the complex political dynamics between Horde blood elves, other Horde races, Kael'thas, the Scryers and the wretched... not to mention the Sunwell and demonic temptation. Stuff just happened and baddies were killed... or "set back". And the Sunwell ended pretty heavily on manga lore most players had no clue about.

It's funny how MoP was the expansion with the truly epic blood elf lore (and pretty much epic everything, and yet nobody likes it)...

[hablix]

I've seen 4 bosses so far and I'm definitely not getting a "good as Ulduar" vibe, nothing of the sort. The fights are pretty fun, but I guess the problem for me is the music is all music I've heard about a million times before throughout the game. Maybe there will be some new tracks later on... but music is extremely important to the raid experience for me.

Also this situation with how difficult Normal is for the loot it drops is really awkward. My guild is exactly the kind of guild Normal is supposed to be aimed at, but we had enough time in Highmaul to go 6/7 Heroic (most of those kills happening within the last few weeks) so all of the gear that we are wiping for is getting sharded and offspec'd. It kills a lot of the enjoyment, I don't care how awesome and atmospheric it might be. This is a kink in the system Blizzard needs to work out for next expansion's intro tier.

[Nightspear]

No clue yet. Untill Ive progressed Mythic, I can't say for sure. Ive done 8 bosses on hc, and I'm not feeling it atm, but that could easily change.

[Deleted]

I think it's good, but better than Ulduar? naaah

[Deleted]

On Oregorger, being a healer and having the camera constantly move due to being up against a wall is painful.

This statement isn't really in keeping with your signature

Have you tried modifying your camera settings?

[IxilaFA]

Took our guild eight wipes on heroic blast furnace before killing it. We five healed it and killed eat elementalist in one slag. I went into phase 3 with 90% mana and mana pot so we completely decimated the fight. I had around half mana when the fight ended so I thought it was pretty easy and simple after the first few attempts but definitely not hard.

Extremely fun fight though. Really excited to do it in mythic.

Do you have a link to your logs? Because I honestly don't believe this one bit.