Quick Question RE: Stat Priorty and Bleeding Edge Players

[Deleted]

So it seems pretty universally agreed upon on this forum that the Disc stat priority is:

Int > SP > Spirit (until comfortable) > Mast > Crit = Multi (or possibly Multi > Crit) > Haste (could be higher based on your playstyle/mana) > Vers

The majority of bleeding edge players I look at (Paragon, Method, etc) all follow this close enough:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/mugthol/Zarastro/ (847 crit, 1637 mast, 932 multi)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s-blade/Altzu/
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...-nether/Xabok/


So the question is, why when I look at the Armory of some of the other top Disc's in the world do I see that they are prioritizing Crit? (even over Mast):
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...crest/Dorisyo/ (1804 crit, 902 mast, 381 multi)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nis%C3%A4ngel/ (1910 crit, 817 mast, 726 multi)

And then there are some who prioritize Mast and Crit, but then ignore Multi?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Siory/ (970 crit, 1691 mast, 237 multi)
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/jubeithos/Luke/ (1393 crit, 2110 mast, 220 multi)

AND some prioritzing Multi over everything else:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Eywing/ (911 crit, 525 mast, 1830 multi)
EDIT: He mains Holy.

Do they know something we don't? Is there some special raid/healing tactic they are using? Are all secondary stats just great for Disc, so it doesn't matter what you focus on?

I look forward to your thoughts.

[Deleted]

Some of those players might just have gotten random drops and/or prioritize Intellect (like you should, unless its maybe versa/crit) and mastery over other stats like Luke/Siory. You´d also prio spirit/x item over a non spirit beter itemized item if the fight is mana heavier.

Im not sure why they would prio crit over mastery, or go full multi (tho my guess is hes holy normally). But most of these players go no/few logs so its hard to tell what they are doing.

I feel like Mastery will always be prio as secondary stat unless the item has more Intellect, seeing how much absorption we use and how much that stat increases it. Its also been discussed to go "Mastery >haste (until comfortable) > Multristike" these days. Though myself i prefer "Mastery > Multistrike > haste/crit" as i think its also very viable.

[ceddya]

Those using Crit might be doing so just for Blast Furnace progression? The Disc Priests who have killed it all seem to focus on Mastery enchants otherwise. The MS user seems to have gone Holy for most kills, so that probably explains those enchants.

Still, for gearing priority, I'm guessing that take whatever Mythic gear that's an ilvl advantage upgrade of its secondaries. I doubt these healers have the luxury to choose their BIS seeing as most bleeding edge raids will still prioritize gearing their DPS.

[Myllior]

I'll comment on these out of order from how you brought them up.

AND some prioritzing Multi over everything else:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Eywing/ (911 crit, 525 mast, 1830 multi)

Looking through From Scratch's WoWProgress page, every first kill that Eywing was in for, they were Holy, so chances are that their gear is Holy-focused. The gear does have less Haste than I would have expected, but since they are currently logged out as Discipline, perhaps there are some pieces that they've swapped.

And then there are some who prioritize Mast and Crit, but then ignore Multi?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Siory/ (970 crit, 1691 mast, 237 multi)
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/jubeithos/Luke/ (1393 crit, 2110 mast, 220 multi)

Since reforging no longer exists, figuring out someone's stat priority beyond their first choice (usually indicated by enchants and gems) is a bit of a mystery. If I had to guess, I'd say the higher Critical Strike rating is simply a result of the gear they've gotten while trying to get as much Mastery as possible, which is what should be done since, if Spirit is not considered, Mastery + Any other secondary is better than anything without Mastery.

So the question is, why when I look at the Armory of some of the other top Disc's in the world do I see that they are prioritizing Crit? (even over Mast):
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...crest/Dorisyo/ (1804 crit, 902 mast, 381 multi)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nis%C3%A4ngel/ (1910 crit, 817 mast, 726 multi)

This has me at a loss. My initial impression was that maybe they usually play Shadow (although I have no idea of Shadow's stat priority), but then I went through their respective guilds' WoWProgress pages and they're listed as Discipline for every first kill they participated in. (I know WoWProgress records their spec when they logout, rather than the spec they killed the boss in, but I haven't got much else to go off). I really don't know what's going on here, as I'm not aware of any play-style for Discipline that favours Critical Strike over Mastery (unless they're completely neglecting PW:S/CoW, which doesn't seem likely).

In the end though, Mastery is generally the be-all and end-all of Discipline secondaries. For instance, I quickly perused the armories of the top 20 'All Stars' Discipline Priests on WCL for Mythic BRF and, with the exception of one who was logged out as Shadow, all of them were enchanting and gemming for Mastery. I know this isn't exactly representative, especially given how many of the bleeding edge guilds do not make logs public until well after the fact, but it coincides with the maths.

EDIT: And, as usual, I take far too long to write my posts.

[Deleted]

-snip-

You are right about Eywing, I completely missed that he usually played Holy. It seems reasonable too that you are correct in assuming that raiders are just taking the best mastery gear they can get - regardless of other stats. Leading to some naturally missing out on some multi or crit because of gear drops. The increased Int + Mast from the higher ilvl gear trumps the "ideal" stat assignment on lower item level gear, regardless of the other stat on the new gear.

In the end though, Mastery is generally the be-all and end-all of Discipline secondaries. For instance, I quickly perused the armories of the top 20 'All Stars' Discipline Priests on WCL for Mythic BRF and, with the exception of one who was logged out as Shadow, all of them were enchanting and gemming for Mastery. I know this isn't exactly representative, especially given how many of the bleeding edge guilds do not make logs public until well after the fact, but it coincides with the maths.

I don't think anyone is doubting that mastery should be the #1 priority. And as I said, the majority of players are following what I would consider the "normal" priority. I was more making this thread to highlight how there is a large variety in other secondary stats from some of the top players. Which lead me to believe that there might not really be much in it between them? (so it doesn't matter if you go Crit > Multi or vise versa)

And those Crit > Mastery people? They are just wierd

[Myllior]

It seems reasonable too that you are correct in assuming that raiders are just taking the best mastery gear they can get - regardless of other stats. Leading to some naturally missing out on some multi or crit because of gear drops. The increased Int + Mast from the higher ilvl gear trumps the "ideal" stat assignment on lower item level gear, regardless of the other stat on the new gear.

Just to clarify here for others who read this (I know you understand what's going on), when I spoke of an item with Mastery being generally better than one without it, I was also considering equal item level. As Shinbout and Ceddya mentioned before me, if you start looking at gear upgrades, then a higher item level item without Mastery could very well trump a lower item level item with Mastery, due to the Intellect gained.

I was more making this thread to highlight how there is a large variety in other secondary stats from some of the top players. Which lead me to believe that there might not really be much in it between them? (so it doesn't matter if you go Crit > Multi or vise versa)

Ah I understand now. While the replies so far seemed to have answered that the variety of stats is more a result of taking what's available rather than actively seeking different stats, it is worth noting that the other secondaries are indeed fairly closely spaced. For instance, for the setup that comes in my Discipline spreadsheet, Mastery is ~30% ahead of the next best secondary (Multistrike), while the maximum difference between any of Multistrike, Critical Strike and Versatility is much smaller, at ~12% (using the numbers in the sheet, swapping 19.43 Critical Strike to 19.43 Multistrike is equivalent to a gain of 1 Intellect, so they are indeed very close). Ultimately, Multistrike is usually ahead of Critical Strike, due to Empowered PoH making up ~10% of pre-secondary healing, but the difference is indeed quite trivial.

So indeed, after Intellect, Mastery and Spirit, what you pick to be your next stat doesn't seem to be too important.

PS: I have a nagging suspicion that I've said something silly in the above; sorry if I have.