So uhhh Chi Torpedo?

[iddqd]

Is there any time where Xuen would be better than Chi Torpedo, or just Torpedo all the way now?

Yeah, anytime you only have one target. Single target, Xuen is still way better.

[Rockets]

Is there any time where Xuen would be better than Chi Torpedo, or just Torpedo all the way now?

Xuen's Crackling Tiger Lightning and CT have the same total damage over 3 minutes, regardless of number of targets. So, the rules are:

Always use Xuen when:
- you need 45s of burst every 3 minutes
- you are going to be using SEF a significant amount of the time; the SEF clones do not cast CT when we last tested it, but they do reduce your personal CT damage
- you need your roll charges for movement and won't necessarily be hitting anything important with CT

Always use CT when:
- you need 3s of burst every 45s
- you need to aoe more often than every 3 minutes, but don't want to take RJW

Outside of those cases, either take RJW in the usual cases where RJW is relevant, or take Xuen; he's much less work to manage, and also he autos for about half of his CTL damage, so on single-target he'll do ~33% more damage than CT.

[Soisoisoi]

So Single Target = Xuen
Cleave with low/no SEF time = CT (e.g. Beastlord when other people can AoE faster?)
Cleave with high SEF time = Xuen

Besides needing either extended or faster damage, am I understanding you guys right?

Also, where are the prio would this go? Assuming you always want to keep one charge on CD to not waste it, but when are you using the other two [Celerity]? Downtime, between downtime in energy for the likes of SCK/ChiEx?

[TrollShaman]

I think that's the right idea, since I dont believe xuen's damage gets penalized being a 'pet', while CT gets the penalty and on top of it SEF does not copy CT.

[Rockets]

So Single Target = Xuen
Cleave with low/no SEF time = CT (e.g. Beastlord when other people can AoE faster?)
Cleave with high SEF time = Xuen

Besides needing either extended or faster damage, am I understanding you guys right?

Yeah basically. The time window does matter though; any fight like Spine of Deathwing where you have to burst more often than every 3m, CT is going to be the way to go even for single-target. It'll look less good on meters but you're a better raider by doing the important damage when it counts.

[Ezyah]

yeah doesnt seem to work when you jump and tbh it really feel bad designed when used. I m really strugling to gain dps from it....

[Soisoisoi]

yeah doesnt seem to work when you jump and tbh it really feel bad designed when used. I m really strugling to gain dps from it....

You still go pretty far when you jump, compared to roll, but not too far. http://i.imgur.com/nDpTqWb.jpg

Definitely does damage when you jump too if you meant that.

[Ysho]

yeah doesnt seem to work when you jump and tbh it really feel bad designed when used. I m really strugling to gain dps from it....

Are you guys seriously trying to figure out how to jump and then Chi Torpedo so that you don't go as far? There has to be a metaphor for putting in more effort than its worth that I can't think of.

It would be cool if chi torpedo only moved you in the direction that you were already moving when casted. And if you're standing still you just torpedo in place.

[Deleted]

Are you guys seriously trying to figure out how to jump and then Chi Torpedo so that you don't go as far? There has to be a metaphor for putting in more effort than its worth that I can't think of.

And then you realize this talent is good on Mythic Thogar and you pretty much HAVE to use the jump + torpedo thing if you don't want to end up dying randomly to stuff because of chi torpedo.

[rulem]

So what fights would you all recommend using chi torpedo on? There are a lot of fights where I can see bursting more often than every 3m would be useful.

[Adaren]

Xuen's Crackling Tiger Lightning and CT have the same total damage over 3 minutes, regardless of number of targets.

Xuen's Crackling Tiger Lightning only hits 3 targets max (to my knowledge). So Chi Torpedo would deal more damage in a situation with a ton of adds.

Of course, at that point, you should probably consider taking RJW anyway.

To me, Chi Torpedo's utility is in the healing. It'll never beat Xuen for < 3 targets, and it'll never beat RJW for heavy AoE, not even factoring in the fact that it's about 20 times harder to use than either of those. It may be useful for burst AoE against a ton of low health targets, if that situation ever presents itself.

[Rockets]

Xuen's Crackling Tiger Lightning only hits 3 targets max (to my knowledge). So Chi Torpedo would deal more damage in a situation with a ton of adds.

Of course, at that point, you should probably consider taking RJW anyway.

To me, Chi Torpedo's utility is in the healing. It'll never beat Xuen for < 3 targets, and it'll never beat RJW for heavy AoE, not even factoring in the fact that it's about 20 times harder to use than either of those. It may be useful for burst AoE against a ton of low health targets, if that situation ever presents itself.

Ah yes, that's true; CTL is limited to 3 targets.

But like I've said, it's the burst window that is torpedo's main strength; it's 750% AP every 45s, instead of 3000% every 3m for Xuen or (648% WDPS + 185% AP) every 6s for RJW. Any fight where you need to burst down adds that spawn in once every 45-60s, CT is the way to go. If they spawn more frequently than that, take RJW. If they show up more like every 3m, take Xuen.

[Totaltotemic]

Are you guys seriously trying to figure out how to jump and then Chi Torpedo so that you don't go as far? There has to be a metaphor for putting in more effort than its worth that I can't think of.

It would be cool if chi torpedo only moved you in the direction that you were already moving when casted. And if you're standing still you just torpedo in place.

It's actually not that hard as a lot of people learned during the PvP 2-set cheesing times in Highmaul. You just have to do it a few times to get used to it and then not accidentally screw it up and get yourself killed.

[Ezyah]

It just wont work when jumping if you are starting too close from the target ... so counterintuitive to use ...

[Juliansfist]

I find adds still need to have a sweet spot in health as you are still going to get more damage from tri-sef chi burst and SCK than having to tri-sef chi burst cancel sef triple chi torpedo than sef again to SCK if AoE still worth it. Making chi torpedo with a cancel sef macro is probably recommend for some.

[Adaren]

I find adds still need to have a sweet spot in health as you are still going to get more damage from tri-sef chi burst and SCK than having to tri-sef chi burst cancel sef triple chi torpedo than sef again to SCK if AoE still worth it. Making chi torpedo with a cancel sef macro is probably recommend for some.

Does SEF decrease CT's damage? I haven't tested it, but it seems like an oversight if so.

Last I checked, it didn't affect EH damage, but maybe that's a special case.

[Juliansfist]

When I tried prepared I noticed it decreased it's damage and it wouldn't reduce expel harm's damage because eh doesn't operate as a regular attack instead it does a fixed portion of amount healed. SEF has always reduced the damage on any standard damaging attack/ability/proc even if it isn't replicated by the clones.

Examples of reduced but not replicated attacks are the shattered hand proc, the MoP legendary meta, the dps buff proc from the spoils fight and chi torpedo (or at least it used to).

[Deleted]

Related, used Chi torpedo today in our hc alt/main run, performed really well with Chi torpedo, no idea if it is better than Xuen on these fights, but I thing it has potential.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

On beastlord my plan was to basically have minimum 2 torpedos up for each pack, i roll into and back out of each pack and then use a chi burst.


I only used it on throgar and darmac btw

[Vladrek]

I feel like if we tweet about CT being reduced but not coppied by se&f and get blizzards attention it could be fixed soon, they probably just don't know.

[Moozhe]

The problem with Chi Torpedo being reduced but not copied by clones is an inherent problem with the design of Storm, Earth, and Fire which I predicted when they first added it in patch 5.2.

The issue is that when our clones are alive a flat damage modifier is applied to us and all our damage is reduced except for a specific blacklist of abilities which are exempt from this modifier.

But the problem is that our clones do not copy every ability, they only copy a specific whitelist of abilities.

So here we have a specific list of abilities exempt and a specific list of abilities copied. So any new ability that is added whether it is a trinket proc effect, a legendary proc, consumable items like engineering bombs, or even an encounter specific special action button attack... they all by default are not copied but they are reduced. Blizzard has to actively add them to one of the two lists (either copied or exempt) for it to be balanced.

The simple change may be to simply change the damage modifier from a blacklist to a whitelist. All abilities should be exempt from the damage reduction except those which are being copied by clones. So then abilities like Chi Torpedo and legendary procs won't slip through the cracks.