How can I use RJW on Kromog effectively? and more (Logs included)

[Ggtbot]

Hey guys,

Relatively new to MW and my guild has asked me to solidify their finals healer spot, and after the first night of raiding, I really feel like there's a lot of things I could be doing better. I find myself often in lag phases with large amounts of chi, and end up using EvM (Which is a horrible overheal) and then I find myself in uplift-heavy phases with not enough chi. These are things I realize I'm mismanaging, and any advice on managing them would be appreciated.

But, the kicker is on Kromog, the logs include out attempts (I died to a ripple because our tank healer died and it was likely a wipe anyway)

I just cant seem to use my mana fast enough without RJW and RJW doesn't seem to do enough (too much spread and stacking with melee distracts me from uplifting.

Warcraft logs: /reports/zaPBfxQc1q76krhR#type=healing&source=21

Thanks

[Deleted]

For RJW usage its pretty straightforward you just use it during the stone breath. Your ranged should really stack at the back of the room and step forward collectively when clap comes, spreading makes literally no sense and just makes healing harder for you and the rdruid.


Stay off enveloping if you can, I mean.... don't let people die. But since people are generally taking an even amount of damage you should focus on heals that distribute even amounts of healing. I think breath of the serpent has become usable on that fight judging by another set of logs posted in the MW thread. That or pool of mists should be fine.


If you need on demand chi during heavy aoe, turn to RJW first and surging after that. Surging is a nice on demand chi generator to burst with. Generally I'd just dump out surgings into low health members and put the chi into uplifts during aoe for the chi. If you run chi torpedo you can use SCK as an on demand chi generator in the exact same way and ignore surging completely. SCK -> SCK -> Uplift and repeat. Rjw is better on that fight though so just dump out dem surgings.

Try not to single target heal too much, unless someone is actually going to die.


Also imo you shouldn't fistweave that fight unless you are using hero on pull in which case the healing req. for the first breath will be easily met by your co healers. The first breath happens almost immediately and after that the damage is somewhat continuous. When I'm in the hand I'll ToD it but generally just keeping rems and uplifts going out as opposed to doing damage. The damage at that point is too excessive to warrant fistweaving imo.

Depends on your talent choices really.... but assuming RJW/PoM just stack all of your healing into the breaths and grasping earth phase. If you're chi capped during a period of low damage its not a big deal throwing an enveloping into a player/tank and it overhealing. So long as you can get the chi back before aoe without taxing your mana. Chi capping is generally a bad idea, if you can recover it in time without any panic then spend it. Wastes mana and output to sit on it.

Main thing I see wrong with your log on that fight is too much ST healing on a fight where you shouldn't need to do that. If people are genuinely that spikey I'd question the guilds execution. But you heal with druid/pala/disc and they are all more capable of dealing with that then you are & you should trust them to spot heal.

- - - Updated - - -

Also I mean.... your hpally is stacking wings with hero on pull (and presumably int pots on all healers?) for first breath which is kind of vomit. He should wings 2nd and wings off cooldown after that. I get that its only 1.5 min CD with glyph but he should absolutely not be using wings with pots and hero up it's a complete waste.

Wings might not be enough to carry the group through a stone breath on it's own but thats such a waste on pull. Barrier/revival/tranq can all be used twice I think should get you through every (or most) breaths. Never properly rolled cd's for that fight so not 100% on that.


Also I think small group size doesn't help your healing. MW's are just lol in big groups. Smaller ones.... yeh no. Same output I guess but less effective & way more overhealing.

[Deleted]

How did you guys figure out the timing for breath? im trying to time my first Uplift to heal exactly when breath hit but every time it have a delay or it cast on time on DBM, for example i start to cast Uplift when there is 0.5 or 1 sec before breath, sometimes it work and i manage to Uplift exactly when boss use breath and the raid take damage sometimes there is a delay on breath, what exactly is the deal?

[Deleted]

How did you guys figure out the timing for breath? im trying to time my first Uplift to heal exactly when breath hit but every time it have a delay or it cast on time on DBM, for example i start to cast Uplift when there is 0.5 or 1 sec before breath, sometimes it work and i manage to Uplift exactly when boss use breath and the raid take damage sometimes there is a delay on breath, what exactly is the deal?

Dunno. I don't precast for the breaths, guess I should. But I just get ReM's out before it comes in, RJW and begin the uplift spammage with a chi burst.
Possibly the delay comes from the boss casting another ability like slam on tanks just before the breath? We're all pretty much terrible so won't reach it on mythic until 2019 so I generally don't pay close attention to these things until we're stuck on something or progressing. I'd say it's another ability though. You can predict things easier keeping the boss targeted. Should heal with mouseovers anyway

Will keep an eye on the timer next time and see for myself. The timer on blast on furnace is off as well, that's one where I usually am precasting. Blast comes about 1 second after the timer hits 0.

[Potta]

Aside from RJW, which should be a fairly obvious case of use it when you're stacked and people are damaged, there are other issues:

Your biggest problem in those logs is Revival. You were alive for 6 minutes, but only used Revival once. That would have been another ~1.3m healing, assuming you could equal the healing of the first one. That alone will bump you from 37k hps while you alive to 41k, which is more reasonable. Still a little low however.

I'd say that you didn't use Uplift as well as you could, the overheal % on it is really a bit high for a fight like Kromog where everyone is taking roughly equivalent damage. Wouldn't hurt to use it a little more either, but you're not too bad already.

Could use Life Cocoon more too. It's a large amount of healing for the cost + GCD. over 6 minutes, it should be used 3-4 times, but you used it twice. Just pop it on one of the tanks when a Slam is about to come.

You could aim Chi Burst better - I think I see 4 or 5 times in the logs when you're just hitting yourself with it. Your first Chi Burst was good, and healed ~120k. But a lot of others only healed for ~20k. It's better to save the Chi Burst until you know you can hit more people with it than it is to blow it early and only hit 1 or two.

You're also sitting on 20 Mana Tea stacks for far far far too long. I think you spent upwards of 2 minutes of the 6 that you were alive capped on Mana Tea. Set up an weak aura for that to trigger at anything above 18 stacks.

[Deleted]

Well, uplift will always have a lot of overhealing in logs but it's not actually wasted healing since the DR ignores people on full health. Hard to seperate actual uplift overhealing from the kinda not really uplift overhealing.

Revival I mean..... Going into a fight saying "I'm going to use it twice cause of the sweet sweet heepz and my place on the meter" is just wrong sorry. It's either part of a set cooldown rotation for breaths or you use it to save the raid (on progress). What you're suggesting is meter padding, that's for farm not progress.

LC same as revival, could be using it reactively or it might be called for by tanks.


As per chi burst this DR's on 6 people + same as uplift but if he can aim it through ranged and into melee it should bug out and do twice the healing.


Sitting on 20 stacks I didn't notice, indeed that is bad

[Potta]

Well, uplift will always have a lot of overhealing in logs but it's not actually wasted healing since the DR ignores people on full health. Hard to seperate actual uplift overhealing from the kinda not really uplift overhealing.

Can't say I've noticed that. Regardless of that though, his Uplift overhealing % on that fight is 10% higher than mine for a similar fight duration, so there's something not quite right there.

Revival I mean..... Going into a fight saying "I'm going to use it twice cause of the sweet sweet heepz and my place on the meter" is just wrong sorry. It's either part of a set cooldown rotation for breaths or you use it to save the raid (on progress). What you're suggesting is meter padding, that's for farm not progress.

This is total nonsense. Revival is there to be used. Using it when the group drops low to Slam + Breath is not meter padding. It's an efficient use of the ability. It stabilises people on low HP and is extremely mana efficient. His first Revival was over 3 mins into the fight. By not using those cooldowns when you can, you let people sit lower for longer. You spend more mana in bringing them back up. As a healer on this fight, my goal is to get people above the "danger zone". That is, enough HP to survive taking a hit from Reverberations. They shouldn't take any, but these things happen. If they don't, great, then they're also healthy for the next slam+breath, but if they do, then at least they won't die right away.

What is wrong is this absurd notion you have of being some sort of meter whore. Going into a fight saying that you're not going to use your raid cooldowns because you don't want to be one is what is wrong. If your raid CD is not part of a rotation, and there are no extra damage phases to the fight where you absolutely must have it, then you would have to be brain dead to use Revival once in a 7 min fight. There's just no excuse not to.

LC same as revival, could be using it reactively or it might be called for by tanks.

LC is not powerful enough to be considered a tank CD. If yours do, then fine, but it's really not a huge amount more than some PW:S casts. I'd use it in rotation on Twins maybe, but other than that, I see no reason not to use it when it's available.

[Deleted]

He used his revival after tranq and wings were used. Are you suggesting he stack his revival with a tranq? The raid wiped before he could use his 2nd revival so I don't understand the big problem here? He should just use it A) when he's been instructed too or B) as a clutch heal if it's off the rotation.... which on that fight it probably isn't. Since the damage is highly predictable.


There is no issue with revival in that log other than they wiped before it came off cooldown.


LC .... again. Not something I'd personally just press off cooldown. I prefer it as a reactive heal to players/tanks on low health. Just pressing it off CD on a tank when they don't need it is silly


Uplift thing, get the weakaura from geodews signature

[Potta]

Kromog is a fight with many many opportunities to use as many raid CDs as you have. The Slam + Breath generally comes as a combo, he'll go straight from one into another, and he does it once every ~30 seconds, except for in the hand phase, where you'll have a ~1 minute gap between them. The idea that he sat there for over 3 minutes without a good opportunity to put Revival on CD is just not reasonable.

As long as you're not overhealing, or sniping another healers CD, then that's the best way to use the Revival in that fight. Early as possible, as often as possible. It might not always be strictly necessary then, but it allows you to save mana for later in the fight.

[Deleted]

Kromog is a fight with many many opportunities to use as many raid CDs as you have. The Slam + Breath generally comes as a combo, he'll go straight from one into another, and he does it once every ~30 seconds, except for in the hand phase, where you'll have a ~1 minute gap between them. The idea that he sat there for over 3 minutes without a good opportunity to put Revival on CD is just not reasonable.

As long as you're not overhealing, or sniping another healers CD, then that's the best way to use the Revival in that fight. Early as possible, as often as possible. It might not always be strictly necessary then, but it allows you to save mana for later in the fight.

Either way it's 2 revivals in the one fight only way to squeeze a 3rd would be if it lasted 7 minutes. If that's their progress boss he should be using it on a set rotation for breaths so regular healing CD's avoid mana strain. If he's using it at the 3 and 6 minute marks that literally makes no difference vs the 1st/4th minute marks. Except that the healing at the end is harder, and that he probably should be using it at 3/6.

Literally.... No difference. The everything off cooldown as many times as possible attitude is why I see all these dumb tranqs and shit when I do pugs. So vomit. Knowing when to hang on to a cd is important. I don't know how many people I've saved with life cocoon and how many wipes that's indirectly avoided but its a lot. If you're using it off cooldown on tanks your count is likely close to 0.

We're doing oreg mythic at the moment. I could squeeze in 3 revivals of I used one right at the very start in first phase and off cooldown after that and not do much overhealing at all with it.

By your logic that's better than using it in both roll phases and only getting 2 (far more useful) revivals?

[Ggtbot]

Thanks for the advice, I actually have been really lazy haven't set up and WA things for my monk (use it religiously for my mage).

The mana tea stacks, because we weren't stacked (will be fixed tonight, we'll be stacking ranged) were more of a nonissue. Without RJW it's really difficult to oom, but yeah regardless, I should've used them.

Since we weren't stacked, I tried to aim chi burst at melee but that only worked some of the time. Another thing (question) I SWEAR, sometimes (I use a mouseover macro) that my chi burst goes no where fucking near my target and instead flies out to space.

[Deleted]

If they're gonna keep doing the fight like that I'd suggest using crane/chi explo/xuen/chi burst in melee vs uplift spammage at ranged. But really, those mofos should stack. There is literally no reason to spread on that fight unless they're trying to make it hard for you and the Druid I dunno.

Them spreading removes chi burst / jade wind. That n group size, too small

[Potta]

Either way it's 2 revivals in the one fight only way to squeeze a 3rd would be if it lasted 7 minutes. If that's their progress boss he should be using it on a set rotation for breaths so regular healing CD's avoid mana strain. If he's using it at the 3 and 6 minute marks that literally makes no difference vs the 1st/4th minute marks. Except that the healing at the end is harder, and that he probably should be using it at 3/6.

Literally.... No difference. The everything off cooldown as many times as possible attitude is why I see all these dumb tranqs and shit when I do pugs. So vomit. Knowing when to hang on to a cd is important. I don't know how many people I've saved with life cocoon and how many wipes that's indirectly avoided but its a lot. If you're using it off cooldown on tanks your count is likely close to 0.

We're doing oreg mythic at the moment. I could squeeze in 3 revivals of I used one right at the very start in first phase and off cooldown after that and not do much overhealing at all with it.

By your logic that's better than using it in both roll phases and only getting 2 (far more useful) revivals?

That's not what I'm saying. Obviously Oregorger is different because the roll phase caters to Revival's range perfectly. It's a fantastic tool there. Kromog is nothing like that. And you do realise, that in the very log we're looking at, and you say there's only time for 2 Revivals, there were actually time for 3. The first Revival was used at ~3:25. Could have used a Revival in the first 25 seconds for the early breath/slam combo.

[Buildapanda]

That's not what I'm saying. Obviously Oregorger is different because the roll phase caters to Revival's range perfectly. It's a fantastic tool there. Kromog is nothing like that. And you do realise, that in the very log we're looking at, and you say there's only time for 2 Revivals, there were actually time for 3. The first Revival was used at ~3:25. Could have used a Revival in the first 25 seconds for the early breath/slam combo.

Unless you are trying to pad meters there's no reason to use a cooldown there

[Deleted]

That's not what I'm saying. Obviously Oregorger is different because the roll phase caters to Revival's range perfectly. It's a fantastic tool there. Kromog is nothing like that. And you do realise, that in the very log we're looking at, and you say there's only time for 2 Revivals, there were actually time for 3. The first Revival was used at ~3:25. Could have used a Revival in the first 25 seconds for the early breath/slam combo.

So you suggest using revival during hero on pull, when every healer has an int pot up also.


That's padding. Like the holy paladin is doing in that log by popping wings


Why am I even having this discussion. You should NOT do that on progress. Sigh