Blaming only the Rapist is pointless

[Maxilian]

You disagree that it's stupid to sleep drunk, in a short skirt, all alone, on a bus stop in a dangerous neighborhood at night?

Yeah, is stupid, but that doesn't make it her fault

[Bakis]

What if your house collapses on you???? Could have prevented by not being there!

True not being born is probably the safest thing but I'm sure that would be the infants fault somehow.

[Sunseeker]

To be brief, the general issue with the "take precautions" argument is that it has no end. Low cut shirt? Didn't take precautions. Tight sweater? Didn't take precautions, all the way up until you're blaming rape victims Saudi-style where anything less than being escorted at all times when outside by a male family member and wearing anything less than a burka is not taking precuations.

That's why we don't victim blame in rape, and why we don't victim blame in most other crimes, because it's very easily slide down to a ridiculous level where we're blaming people for not being under armed guard at all times.

[Gatsbybutters]

Getting blackout drunk at frat parties is stupid, and a bad idea, putting yourself at risk.
Blaming anyone besides the rapist for rape is THE MOST stupid thing ever.
Death to rapists. Period. Every single of one of them.
Get your head straight OP.

[isuridedes]

There is nothing worthwhile in what you have said, OP. There is no shared blame in rape; regardless of any of the circumstances. Let's take a look at some common "partial guilt" themes:

You wore provocative clothing
What does this even mean? Her skirt was too short so she was 'asking' to be raped? She should have known better, understood that a fraction of the population are rapists and based on that completely changed her method of dress to what.... help the rapist NOT rape? This premise is absurd.

You lead him on...
Again... what does this mean? She was being flirtatious and somehow 'owed' this man sex? No, again, a premise that stands on nothing but the idea of male entitlement.

You were drunk/high/etc...
This is called being taken advantage of. It is the epitome of being a victim... Taken to an absurdity no woman should ever sleep, because while sleeping she may not be able to fend off an assault. She should know better than to sleep because you know, she's asking to be violated...

Victim-blaming cannot stand as a defense. There is no such thing as 'partial' guilt on the part of the person who was violated, and pretending that there is is just applying male entitlement as some level of excuse of abnormal and horrible behavior.

[Bodakane]

Just wanted to get it out there, feel free to hate me for beeing a "victim blamer", because you did not read the whole text/did not get my point.
So what i want to get at is, that our western society especially feminism is so focused on blaming all men for raping women.
And who ever dares to ask what the girl was wearing or whatever is shamed for trying to imply that it could be the womans fault.
In my example i will adress the general assumption of male=rapist and female=victim, despite the fact, that rape happens vice versa or withing the same gender. Also i am talking about real rape, not the loose feminist definitions like regretted ONS etc.

If you tell a rape victim, that it was not her fault and she could not have done anything to prevent it and that it was 100% the fault of the man, that might be more comfortable at the moment (and we know everyone prefers the comfortable path to the stony one) but hurt in the long run.
Just imagine you would be in the situation after beeing raped, you feel extremely bad, worthless, used, dehumanised. You question the point of life and become paranoid, a certain smell or sound reminds you constantly of the incident. And your friends, family, doctory, police tell you constantly it was not your fault, you could not have done anything to prevent it and that the authorities will get him.
Thats very comforting at first glance, but what it also does is taking away all your options.
I can only imagine how a victim would feel, but i am very certain you would want to do everything to ensure this does not happen again ever.
But how should you be able to prevent it from happening again if no actions from you have an effect and all the options are tied to the rapist.
I would rather have the discomfort to be asked several uncomfortable questions and admitting to be partial guilty. So i can work on these things to prevent the same incident in the future.
Some of these things are classics we all know in the back of our head, anyway i will list a few keywords
- Alone - Clothing - Intoxicated - Self Defense - Awareness -

And a stupid scenario to paint a picture if you do not already have it in your head. Who is more likely to get raped, A or B?
A - Very drunk girl almost sleeping alone on the bench of a bus stop waiting for the bus she missed partly because she is not very fast wearing a tight skirt with heels and partly because she danced late into the night, even when her friends started to go home.
B - A group of friends who are walking to the bus stop after celebrating the recent black belt honoring at the steakhouse next to the dojo, everyone wears jeans and sneakers.

So to sum it up, the world is dangerous, society can not take care of everything, you have to take a part of the responsibilty.
If you run across the street, you look left and right if there is a car, even if the traffic light is red for cars and green for you.
if you get hit by the car and the car was supposed to have stopped at the red ligth, i assume next time you check if the car has really stopped instead of just expecting it. The driver is wrong because he ignored the red light, but you had the option to look before you cross the street and prevent the incident in the first place.

cheers Eierdotter

Edit:
I assume every sane person knows rape is as wrong as murder and you do not need to tell them. still it happens.
And a TL;DR:
Preventing rape > blaming rapists

This is immensely stupid. Here's just the first 10 reasons out of 100's as to why its immensely stupid:

1. Not all or even most rape crimes are committed to women drunk or wearing something "sexy".
2. What people find "sexy" is different.
3. You're an idiot.
4. Rapists are not usually motivated by sex.
5. Should a guy get raped if he has his shirt off and is drunk?
6. Your scenario is stupid, A or B getting raped depends on the motivation of the actual rapist, not the victim.
7. Does all crime work like this too? If you have an expensive car and it gets stolen, is it your fault? If you're driving at night and get hit by a drunk driver, is it your fault cause you were driving at night? I mean, after all preventing drunk driving accidents > blaming drunk drivers, amirite?
8. Your stance is predicated on some stupid misogynistic pretense, where women are merely sex objects whose only concern in life is to vary their levels of attractiveness to men for desired results.
9. How the fuck are you qualified to even have an opinion on this? What research have you done? Have you ever spoken to a rape victim?
10. What the hell is going on in your life that you not only spent so much time thinking about this, but just boiled over with need that you felt like you had to share this? Who do you know that's been busted for raping someone?

[Kalis]

True not being born is probably the safest thing but I'm sure that would be the infants fault somehow.

So now you're claiming abortion stops rape!

Damned Swedish atheist commies.

[Mayhem]

Why is it so tabu to say that, MAYBE, going piss ass drunk wearing next to nothing, is a bad idea compared to being only slightly drunk but wearing full clothing?

nothing

Still, that´s not making her/him responsible for anything she/he doesn´t want and is forced on her/him.

[Deleted]

Nothing wrong with flame wars, is it? *eats popcorn*

On a serious note; rape will still happen - probably forever and no matter what.
So what can we (as an individual) do?

Protect ourselves.
Clothing does play a part in that protection, believe it or not.
If clothing plays a part in other scenarios, why doesn't it here?

I don't walk through a super-ghetto here where I live in the middle of the night dressed in formal clothing for obvious reasons.

I don't dress provocative (nazism, fascism, communism, anti-religious etc) in public because it brings risks, vocal or physical conflict.

I don't get shitfaced unless I plan to sleep at some buddy or something because it brings risks, getting mugged or attacked in the night on the way home.
Neither do I wear my most expensive clock, jewlery, work+private phone, etc because it's unnecessary and also increases the chances of getting mugged, especially if you're passed out in a bus.

Why is it so tabu to say that, MAYBE, going piss ass drunk wearing next to nothing, is a bad idea compared to being only slightly drunk but wearing full clothing?
It's not about victim blaming, it's about common fucking sense.

"But but... muh clock and jewlery", yeah I agree. I SHOULD be able to dress however I want. But in current society, I can't.

thanks for getting the point and having common sense

[Mayhem]

So now you're claiming abortion stops rape!

Damned Swedish atheist commies.

That finally completes the circle. Abortion stops everything. Fact!

[xuros]

Rape is Rape. Its never acceptable nor is it the vics fault, EVER. Just because a Woman is drunk or dressed "wrong" is no reason to force her to have sex with you when she tells you NO. Ever. Ever.

[Maxilian]

Nothing wrong with flame wars, is it? *eats popcorn*

On a serious note; rape will still happen - probably forever and no matter what.
So what can we (as an individual) do?

Protect ourselves.
Clothing does play a part in that protection, believe it or not.
If clothing plays a part in other scenarios, why doesn't it here?

I don't walk through a super-ghetto here where I live in the middle of the night dressed in formal clothing for obvious reasons.

I don't dress provocative (nazism, fascism, communism, anti-religious etc) in public because it brings risks, vocal or physical conflict.

I don't get shitfaced unless I have a plan to sleep at some buddy or something because it brings risks, getting mugged or attacked in the night on the way home.
Neither do I wear my most expensive clock, jewlery, work+private phone, etc because it's unnecessary and also increases the chances of getting mugged, especially if you're passed out in a bus.

Why is it so tabu to say that, MAYBE, going piss ass drunk wearing next to nothing, is a bad idea compared to being only slightly drunk but wearing full clothing?
It's not about victim blaming, it's about common fucking sense.

"But but... muh clock and jewlery", yeah I agree. I SHOULD be able to dress however I want. But in current society, I can't.

as i have said before... we understand that it is a bad idea, but that doesn't make it her fault...

Also that's not the best way to solve the problem, the best way to evade these kind of things is... education, will that make it stop? Nope, but it won't be that likely also... when you educate someone... you educate for both cases, to prevent you from being the rapist and to prevent you from being the victim

[Deleted]

To be brief, the general issue with the "take precautions" argument is that it has no end. Low cut shirt? Didn't take precautions. Tight sweater? Didn't take precautions, all the way up until you're blaming rape victims Saudi-style where anything less than being escorted at all times when outside by a male family member and wearing anything less than a burka is not taking precuations.

That's why we don't victim blame in rape, and why we don't victim blame in most other crimes, because it's very easily slide down to a ridiculous level where we're blaming people for not being under armed guard at all times.

The irony being that even people in such situations sitll get raped.

As usual, it's just people trying to restrict what women can do, but from a safe distance and probably without evne realising they are doing it.

Until such people become okay with their own friends or sister or something refusing to be in the same room as you because you are a "risk factor" for them then they have no right to tell women what they should do or wear on a night out

[Nadiru]

I don't quite get it; pistols favor women immensely. And still a significant cross-section of women are vehemently anti-gun. Yes, yes, it's "wrong" that evil people exist that would make the pistol a good idea. But positing that evil people are a non-eliminable segment of the population for varying reasons, the presence of a .32 is probably a useful deterrent.

[Gourmandise]

Why would it be locked? Genuinely curious.

We do have freedom of speech herp. I can't see why he doesn't see the merits of blaming victims. Why shouldn't we charge them with the crime too?

[Revi]

We do have freedom of speech herp. I can't see why he doesn't see the merits of blaming victims. Why shouldn't we charge them with the crime too?

I don't get it.. It should be locked because you disagree?

[Kalis]

I don't quite get it; pistols favor women immensely. And still a significant cross-section of women are vehemently anti-gun. Yes, yes, it's "wrong" that evil people exist that would make the pistol a good idea. But positing that evil people are a non-eliminable segment of the population for varying reasons, the presence of a .32 is probably a useful deterrent.

You're fucked if the rapist has a gun and surprises you though, literally in the case of rape.

[Maxilian]

I don't quite get it; pistols favor women immensely. And still a significant cross-section of women are vehemently anti-gun. Yes, yes, it's "wrong" that evil people exist that would make the pistol a good idea. But positing that evil people are a non-eliminable segment of the population for varying reasons, the presence of a .32 is probably a useful deterrent.

It will most likely only get them killed but is an option

[Deleted]

I'd say murder is a much worse crime than rape

[Maxilian]

I don't get it.. It should be locked because you disagree?

Because these kind of threads go nowhere in the end, i mean... do you really think anyone here is going to change the way they think, is nice to have these kind of threads every once in a while because is a really nice way to hear the opinion of other people in X or Y topic but it sooner or later it ends up becoming a pointless war