Claire McCaskil and SJW rage on Game of thrones. (spoilers mentioned)

[Deleted]

You mean Joffrey's body and the show runners already acknowledged that it came off as way more rapey than intended.

Oh, yeah. Joffrey, couldn't remember which Lannister. Thankies.

[Mehrunes]

Shush you. Even if they didn't show the rape itself you can hear what's going on in the background and it's not pleasant. Also, people are complaining that by making Theon the focus of Sansa's rape scene they ignore her and make it all about Theon's pain at seeing someone he considered family get raped by his abuser.

Meh o/

Theon was the focus because that was the catalyst for him to become Theon again and stop being Reek. That's a very important change. And they couldn't show that without showing his face. Also, moving camera away from Sansa reduced the shock value. Though I'm not sure how it diminishes her experience or perspective.

[Yvaelle]

*SPOILERS EVERYWHERE*

They're pretty clearly trying to take Sansa down a Lady Stoneheart-esque road. She's being groomed by Little Finger to become a major player in the game. She knew she was being wed to Ramsay, she knew he was a shitty person (beyond just the whole, killing her family horribly and seizing her castle) and she went down the mountain to wed him anyways: as prelude to her revenge. She knew wedding night sex was a necessary part of this plot.

It's certainly uncomfortable sex, because we know it's not her desire to have sex with Ramsay - but we also know she wants to kill him, and feels marriage/sex are necessary preludes. So, she is consenting - therefore it's not rape.

Skin-crawlingly uncomfortable, definitely. Rape? No.

Sansa is the predator here - her innocent and naive demeanor is a ploy that got her through her betrothal to Joffrey and her life in King's Landing, it's a skill she has cultivated to an art when she corroborated the suicide of Lysa Arryn. It's now a mastery she is applying as prelude to erasing the Boltons from history, as they attempted to erase the Starks.

[Mehrunes]

There is plenty of reason this scene should exist:

1. Ramsay Bolton is a psychopath who loves hurting people
2. Ramsay needs to consummate his marriage to Sansa and get a child in her to maintain his hold on the North
3. Jon needs motivation to betray his vows and try to rescue Sansa (which will lead to his assassination.)

In all likelihood Jon recruiting wildlings will lead to his assassination.

[Grimbold21]

Based on how much they empathized the reaction of Theon, I'm assuming it may be going in the direction of Theon needing to see his innocent "sister" being hurt to get him to snap the fuck outta it. I think the two (Sansa and Theon) are going to work together - after he tells her he didn't really kill her brothers, of course.

That scene would be very important, if that's the route they're going.

The Sansa rape 90% confirms that this is gonna follow Jeyne Poole's (the girl raped in the books) storyline.

[Mehrunes]

Compassion for Theon? The guy deserves it, he's a tit.

Sounds like victim blaming. *Triggered*

[Yvaelle]

Based on how much they empathized the reaction of Theon, I'm assuming it may be going in the direction of Theon needing to see his "sister" being hurt to get him to snap the fuck outta it. I think the two (Sansa and Theon) are going to work together - after he tells her he didn't really kill her brothers, of course.

That scene would be very important, if that's the route they're going.

From what I know of George, that only plays out one of two ways.

Either Sansa confides in Theon, but Theon goes full Reek on her and tattles to Ramsay. Or Sansa either never learns that her brothers lived, or only learns it after she murderstabs Theon a hundred times - as his dying breath - at the conclusion of her plot with the Boltons: a sort of "So I am the true kin-killer then, not Theon" irony.

[TheRickyB]

*SPOILERS EVERYWHERE*

They're pretty clearly trying to take Sansa down a Lady Stoneheart-esque road. She's being groomed by Little Finger to become a major player in the game. She knew she was being wed to Ramsay, she knew he was a shitty person (beyond just the whole, killing her family horribly and seizing her castle, and she went down the mountain to wed him anyways: as prelude to her revenge. She knew wedding night sex was a necessary part of this plot.

It's certainly uncomfortable sex, because we know it's not her desire to have sex with Ramsay - but we also know she wants to kill him, and feels marriage/sex are necessary preludes. So, she is consenting - therefore it's not rape.

Skin-crawlingly uncomfortable, definitely. Rape? No.

Sansa is the predator here - her innocent and naive demeanor is a ploy that got her through her wedding to Joffrey and her life in King's Landing, it's a skill she has cultivated to an art when she corroborated the suicide of Lysa Arryn. It's now a mastery she is applying as prelude to erasing the Boltons from history, as they attempted to erase the Starks.

fucking Thank you. i love how non-show watchers arent seeing the whole picture. but then again they are SJW's so ofcourse they dont know what they whine about!

[Deleted]

From what I know of George, that only plays out one of two ways.

Either Sansa confides in Theon, but Theon goes full Reek on her and tattles to Ramsay. Or Sansa either never learns that her brothers lived, or only learns it after she murderstabs Theon a hundred times - as his dying breath - at the conclusion of her plot with the Boltons.

We got brienne still in the Tavern soooo.

[Mehrunes]

What did that scene add that we didn’t already know? Did the writers think that cutting Theon’s penis off was too subtle to indicate Ramsay’s sadism? Did they think the brutal murder of her mother and brother were not strong enough motivators for Sansa to want revenge against the Boltons? Could they not conceive of a single other way in which Theon might be able to mentally recenter himself? What about this particular rape scene added such probative narrative value that it had to be transposed from one character to another even as the original victim is excised from the story? All it was is more rape on a show already replete with rape,for the sake of having rape. None of this is new information.

And what did the cutting of Theon's penis add? It was already established Ramsay is fucked up. Theon was already broken at that point. Yet, for some reasons I don't see you complaining about it not being needed. But hey, at least it wasn't rape (am I doing this right?)

[Deleted]

And what did the cutting of Theon's penis add? It was already established Ramsay is fucked up. Theon was already broken at that point. Yet, for some reasons I don't see you complaining about it not being needed.

Its fiction not cutting the dick of is like they never found the body.

Well said. Yes, this is how most moral people view it.

I dont think she knew what Ramsey was at the start.

[Deleted]

Based on how much they empathized the reaction of Theon, I'm assuming it may be going in the direction of Theon needing to see his innocent "sister" being hurt to get him to snap the fuck outta it. I think the two (Sansa and Theon) are going to work together - after he tells her he didn't really kill her brothers, of course.

That scene would be very important, if that's the route they're going.

... I don't know, she could end like Jeyne Poole and it's not going to be pleasant. I'd rather she'd stayed at the Eyrie, like she should've. I would like a redemption for Theon, as much as I think he's an idiot, but with these writers I don't even know anymore.

[Mehrunes]

From what I know of George, that only plays out one of two ways.

Either Sansa confides in Theon, but Theon goes full Reek on her and tattles to Ramsay. Or Sansa either never learns that her brothers lived, or only learns it after she murderstabs Theon a hundred times - as his dying breath - at the conclusion of her plot with the Boltons: a sort of "So I am the true kin-killer then, not Theon" irony.

Well, the preview of next episode shows them together (though to me the Sansa's statement during that scene sounds like a voice-over, possible cut from another scene to add confusion and create hype).

[AndaliteBandit]

Sansa willingly married Ramsey, willingly consented to sex, never withdrew consent. Was it the nicest sex? No, but rough sex /= rape.

Surrender and submission aren't consent.

The only thing disgusting about all of this is that we actually have to have a debate over whether or not it was a rape scene. Not that it happened, that we actually need to have scenes like this to generate this kind of discussion.

[Deleted]

And what did the cutting of Theon's penis add? It was already established Ramsay is fucked up. Theon was already broken at that point. Yet, for some reasons I don't see you complaining about it not being needed. But hey, at least it wasn't rape (am I doing this right?)

Ramsay sends Theon's severed penis to his family in Pyke with a letter detailing his Sack of Winterfell and his demand that the ironborn withdraw from the North or Ramsay will send them more of Theon's body parts. Balon refuses to surrender, saying that Theon was a fool for disobeying his orders and attacking Winterfell and that, as his castration means that he is no longer capable of producing heirs, he has no value whatsoever. However, Yara defies her father and prepares the fastest ship in the fleet and the strongest men on the Iron Islands to sail on the Dreadfort and rescue Theon.

Plot.

[Deleted]

She knew they were bad people. And when Ramsay's love interest told her more details about how fucked up he is, she kept her cool and still went through with the marriage.

Was there still an exit option?

Marrying another Jeoffrey in the end :>
Without the stupid.

[Dannz]

jesus h christ... people can whine about anything, and for all you forum posters defending ths SJW outrage with "the scene wasn't in the books!", you seem to be forgetting that a certain fake arya was sent off to the Boltons to be married in the books, instead of Sansa, and her fate was worse than Sansas. Don't forget that in the book Jayne Poole was raped, but she was also raped by dogs and Theon made to "turn her on" with his disgusting disfigured body from the torture he had suffered, before Ramsay was "ready for her". Because the show is simplifying the plot, they changed it from Jayne Poole to Sansa, and therefor Theon will be saving her instead of Theon + Mance Rayer and his spearwives coming to Winterfell to save "Arya" - the whole thing is consistent with the book, considering the corners they cut.

[DemoBytom]

I haven't watched GoT for ages (I've only fully seen s1), but there were plenty of consensual/non consensual sex, incest, sex next to dead child, murders, quite gruesome, including (but not limited to) pouring boiling gold over head, squishing heads, stealth kills on toilets.. God dammit, there was a pregnant woman being stabbed in the belly during a wedding, more cheating than in Bold and Beautiful, good guys getting killed for doing right stuff, while bad guys winning cause they were sneaky,..
I don't know the scene in question, I haven't seen it.. But I doubt it's any worse than shitton of previous ones..
Sombody just yelled 'rape' on twitter at right time, and then people jumped on bandwagon. Prolly Fox News added it's 5 cents and now we have international argument..

In the end I love that guys explanation:

Whoever he is ;P

btw spoilers..

[Yvaelle]

She knew they were bad people. And when Ramsay's love interest told her more details about how fucked up he is, she kept her cool and still went through with the marriage.

^ This.

Further, everyone in the North (of Westeros) hates the Boltons. They have always been shitty people. When other people have symbols of lions and birds and deer, the Boltons are the psychopaths that put skinning people alive as their family crest. They have skulls on their hats. The Boltons march under the banner of a Rat's Anus:



Like, if there was a Westeros Gallup Poll for who the biggest public @$$holes were, Ramsay Bolton would probably have given Joffrey Lannister a run for his money - and Joffrey captures way more public consciousness: so Ramsay really has to go out of his way to out-perform his competitors in the dickishness contest.

[AndaliteBandit]

Was there still an exit option?

Realistically, no. That's why handwaving away her choice as an indication of consent does a disservice to her character. Yes, she willingly married him, and surrendered to the inevitability of rape. Surrender isn't consent. I guess that's too subtle of a distinction for some people to make without assuming this must mean we think all men are rapists.