1. #1
    Warchief dixincide's Avatar
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    Can someone explain the difference between Buy to play and Pay to play?

    Wildstar just went free to play (well announced but still)
    Reading about it I noticed people saying buy to play would have been better.

    Not sure why that is, when i googled it I found this reddit link
    https://www.reddit.com/r/F2PB2PP2PP2...n_free_2_play/

    Which was sort of helpful but didn't explain why one was better than the other.

    Could someone help me figure this one out?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Old God vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Buy to play means you buy the game and play it. Pay to play means you pay a fee to play the game and can only play it as long as you continue to pay the fee.

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    F2P tends to have a worse cash shop than B2P.

    Everything these days has a cash shop so it seems like a null point.

    I like TSWs cash shop.

    I do not like Neverwinter's cash shop.

    My thoughts at least.
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  4. #4
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Buy to Play: You pay for the game itself, usually a one time purchase. Much akin to GW2
    Free to Play: The game it utterly, completely free to play the majority of the content. Other things (cosmetic, or possibly advancing faster) is buyable. Heroes of the Storm and Hearthstone are both Free to Play. Wildstar will be F2P soon.
    Pay to Play (Subscription): WoW, Wildstar's current thing. You pay a monthly fee (and may also have to pay to get core game, but not necessarily). EVE is also such.

    None of these are necessarily tied to systems where you can pay via in-game methods (WoW Tokens, CREDD, Plex, etc)

    Notably, Wildstar is taking on an odd hybrid, where it is F2P, but has a Subscription still for advanced features that are NOT cosmetic. This includes improved AH use, XP boosts, crafting boosts, and other various perks. It does not outright prevent much, but gives perks to those who use it.

    None of these systems are 'better' or 'worse', they're simply platforms, however, it is generally considered that if you have a Subscription game that actually thrives, it's a success, and that game is usually considered more robust. WoW, EVE, FF14 (This is debateable since it had an awful start, and had to be redone after release). I think Lineage is still sub based, and has a large revenue.

    HOWEVER

    There are notable differences when a game changes platforms. GW2 was always B2P, was built on such, and has thrived fabulously. Many other MMO's that started as a subscription, and changed to B2P or F2P often are considered 'failed' and are just struggling to survive that way. "Going F2P" is often the indicator "You done goofed" in the technology world. It's the game equivalent of a major AAA Game Studio switching to Mobile Games only.

    A lot of people prefer B2P over F2P for a few reasons.

    B2P Pros

    -Accessibility. Buying the game ($20) acts as a gate from a huge flood of people simply joining the game, which can ruin communities and atmosphere.
    -More income for the developer, by having that money go to them if people want to play.

    B2P Cons

    -Less people playing due to initial cost, meaning less possible people using the paid services. I haven't spent a cent on hearthstone, personally, but I play it. If they made it B2P (while keeping other paid stuff intact as is), I simply wouldn't play, thus reducing the chance I might ever buy a pack or something.

    F2P Pros

    -More people in game, more exposure, more chances to sell in-game stuff and features. Some people might be more willing to spend some money once they're more invested in the game.

    F2P Cons

    -Higher demand for, and on servers
    -More costs and audience demand for content
    -Possibly damaging image and community

    There's certainly more pros and cons to both, that was just off the top of my head.
    Last edited by chazus; 2015-05-30 at 09:33 PM.
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  5. #5
    Warchief dixincide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Buy to Play: You pay for the game itself, usually a one time purchase. Much akin to GW2
    Free to Play: The game it utterly, completely free to play the majority of the content. Other things (cosmetic, or possibly advancing faster) is buyable. Heroes of the Storm and Hearthstone are both Free to Play. Wildstar will be F2P soon.
    Pay to Play (Subscription): WoW, Wildstar's current thing. You pay a monthly fee (and may also have to pay to get core game, but not necessarily). EVE is also such.

    None of these are necessarily tied to systems where you can pay via in-game methods (WoW Tokens, CREDD, Plex, etc)

    Notably, Wildstar is taking on an odd hybrid, where it is F2P, but has a Subscription still for advanced features that are NOT cosmetic. This includes improved AH use, XP boosts, crafting boosts, and other various perks. It does not outright prevent much, but gives perks to those who use it.

    None of these systems are 'better' or 'worse', they're simply platforms, however, it is generally considered that if you have a Subscription game that actually thrives, it's a success, and that game is usually considered more robust. WoW, EVE, FF14 (This is debateable since it had an awful start, and had to be redone after release). I think Lineage is still sub based, and has a large revenue.

    HOWEVER

    There are notable differences when a game changes platforms. GW2 was always B2P, was built on such, and has thrived fabulously. Many other MMO's that started as a subscription, and changed to B2P or F2P often are considered 'failed' and are just struggling to survive that way. "Going F2P" is often the indicator "You done goofed" in the technology world. It's the game equivalent of a major AAA Game Studio switching to Mobile Games only.

    A lot of people prefer B2P over F2P for a few reasons.

    B2P Pros

    -Accessibility. Buying the game ($20) acts as a gate from a huge flood of people simply joining the game, which can ruin communities and atmosphere.
    -More income for the developer, by having that money go to them if people want to play.

    B2P Cons

    -Less people playing due to initial cost, meaning less possible people using the paid services. I haven't spent a cent on hearthstone, personally, but I play it. If they made it B2P (while keeping other paid stuff intact as is), I simply wouldn't play, thus reducing the chance I might ever buy a pack or something.

    F2P Pros

    -More people in game, more exposure, more chances to sell in-game stuff and features. Some people might be more willing to spend some money once they're more invested in the game.

    F2P Cons

    -Higher demand for, and on servers
    -More costs and audience demand for content
    -Possibly damaging image and community

    There's certainly more pros and cons to both, that was just off the top of my head.
    Thank you very much for your insight and help with my question.

    Cleared a lot of things up for me.

  6. #6
    Buy to play: you pay for it once and thats it
    Pay to Play: You pay for it monthly
    Pay to Win: You will never be as good as the kid using his moms credit card

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by drwelfare View Post
    Buy to play: you pay for it once and thats it
    Pay to Play: You pay for it monthly
    Pay to Win: You will never be as good as the kid using his moms credit card
    Then why do people think buying tokens and selling it to buy 675 gear = You will never be as good as the kid using his moms credit card when Timeless Island 2.0 can give you 695 gear? and HFC is 700+gear? hell even those welfare epic gotten in LFR is 675-685.
    Last edited by Kioshi; 2015-05-30 at 11:33 PM.


    I hate players that suck at WoW, But I also hate wanna be elitist who barely down normal raid and said that the game is too easy...... yea show me you mythic achivement before you say its too easy otherwise move along scum, because I heard wildstar need you.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    Then why do people think buying tokens and selling it to buy 675 gear = You will never be as good as the kid using his moms credit card when Timeless Island 2.0 can give you 695 gear? and HFC is 700+gear? hell even those welfare epic gotten in LFR is 675-685.
    They're a bit silly.
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  9. #9
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    Then why do people think buying tokens and selling it to buy 675 gear = [B]You will never be as good as the kid using his moms credit
    These are two separate arguements. WoW is not 'buy to win'. People need to stop insinuating that. That's like saying buying a 90 boost is somehow 'winning'. Getting last tier loot is not only sad, but certainly isn't winning. I doubt anyone will do this.

    That said, Heroes of the Storm gives literally zero benefit for paying money. Hearthstone on the other hand may give you an opportunity to get a proper card selection, but certainly doesn't give you 'better' cards or 'more' cards or ... well anything you can't get normally with a little work.


    "Buy to Win" as a concept or phrase just needs to die.
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  10. #10
    I am Murloc! zephid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixincide View Post
    Wildstar just went free to play (well announced but still)
    Reading about it I noticed people saying buy to play would have been better.

    Not sure why that is, when i googled it I found this reddit link
    https://www.reddit.com/r/F2PB2PP2PP2...n_free_2_play/

    Which was sort of helpful but didn't explain why one was better than the other.

    Could someone help me figure this one out?

    Thanks.
    Buy to play means that you only have to buy the game and you are free to play it as much as you want online after that. Pay to play means that you have to pay a monthly fee to be able to play the game online.

  11. #11
    Buy to play is the good old days before microtransactions and DLC.

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