Am I just rude or is there no way to give constructive criticism?

[Ravex]

Okay so I admit I get annoyed and say "WTF why would you do that" sometimes. I'm TRYING to be more constructive. So it really bothers me when I say something polite and inoffensive and people get mad and/or mute me, and then go right on doing whatever terrible thing I was trying to gingerly dissuade them from.

So here's an example (from the pirate map). There was an awful lot of derp in this game (some of it mine, granted) but we wound up winning in the end - lots of silly deaths in the start and middle but ultimately we were ahead on forts and at the end we managed to stick together in a group for once and actually won teamfights when it counted. So I can't really complain, but two things happened that bugged me.



First of all, early in the match I noticed our ETC wandering down into the enemy fort in the bottom lane (the one you can walk into if you go below where the merc camp is), run into an Azmo and get killed all while getting hit by the fort's cannon. Baffling. I was pinging retreat but he didn't listen, I said something like "WTF" - okay so that was my fault there, could've been more polite about it. He says "well you just earned an ignore" and that was that. Continued to do silly things for the rest of the match.

So I figure I need to be nicer in chat so people will listen to my chat/pings and not get mad. It's getting into the midgame (16ish?) and I notice Sylvanas is still pushing a lane instead of helping with our teamfights. She hasn't left all match. Sure enough, the enemy notices and 3 of them gank her. I say "Syl stick with the group", and get a reply like "I'm way ahead of you on the board STFU". So I wound up arguing with her all match, which was silly. Should've just rolled my eyes and ignored it.

(And of course she spent the rest of the game solo while we got 4v5ed and then they'd wander over and kill her too whenever they felt like it. Late game we finally grouped up and lo and behold, suddenly we won the teamfight and pushed core and won. /bitching)

Anyway, this has happened in a number of games. I know I sometimes vent frustration into chat and really shouldn't, but even when I'm doing my best to phrase things politely I feel like most of the time people just get mad that I dared to tell them how to play regardless. It's so frustrating.

This is me trying to be nice!

Think most people in this thread need thicker skin.

Saying WTF is similar to unicorns and rainbows from what I see in the games I play.

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I think it's in part because there are so many assholes out there who don't try to be nice that people automatically assume everyone who says anything is trying to scold, berate or shame, rather than actually be helpful or instructive.

I generally try to use "please" and phrase things like "fyi, if you haven't played this map/hero/whatever, [tip]" or "it would be helpful if you do X because that helps Y." It's a lot more typing than just giving brief instructions, but in my experience, people listen better.


It's not about them being pansies, it's using language that projects an indication that one's intention is not to be helpful. If you phrase things in a way that looks like you're on the offensive, they will naturally react on the defensive and will be way less receptive. If you really want people to actually listen to you, you have to use language that makes them feel like you're working with them, not against them. That's not about being overly sensitive, that's basic human nature.

If they start crying or flipping out, that's overly sensitive. But assuming people are just being critical or jerks, that's probably more indicative of being jaded or cynical about people's intentions online, and honestly it's with good reason since there are a shitton of people in online games who care more about berating people for doing stupid things than helping them to stop doing stupid things.

Yea... You try to tell anyone how to play in any tone the conversations already over.

That will only bode well for 1/1000 people in my experience.

[Floopa]

when i was playing alpha i realised early on that a game where the community will undeniably be toxic (all moba communities are toxic) being centred around team fighting and co-ordination as opposed to a variety of things wasn't a game i was interested in.

in dota 2 i can play naga siren or PL and i can 1v5 my way to victory: i can rat all game and win the game while ignoring my team mostly. in hots "ratting" isn't even a thing (yet). but really hots is a "baby's first moba" game, it's got barely any mechanics so i think you can forgive people when they refuse to take criticism (constructive or otherwise).

[GrumpyJester]

Just keep your emotions in check. No need for "WTF!" or exaggerations like "...literally the worst ever!!".

[Floopa]

Just keep your emotions in check. No need for "WTF!" or exaggerations like "...literally the worst ever!!".

no honestly sometimes it's warranted.

[Demona3]

Honestly, I miss the days to where you could emote a pre-selection of phrases to the enemy team. For example, if I killed someone that had a bunch of coins for the pirate on Blackheart's Bay, I would emote to the enemy team "Thanks".

Blizzard viewed this as "toxic and trolling", so they removed the feature. Funny how they removed a feature, but yet, the reports of toxicity go unhindered.

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That's interesting, but yeah it seems like there's no real competition or ways to screw your teammates over which is why people get toxic. That's cool though that the community didn't end up worse.

The only thing that I could recall for competition was the whole Dryad event. However, it wasn't a competition between players, it was a competition between servers.

[Floopa]

Honestly, I miss the days to where you could emote a pre-selection of phrases to the enemy team. For example, if I killed someone that had a bunch of coins for the pirate on Blackheart's Bay, I would emote to the enemy team "Thanks".

the best is spamming "Good game, well played" when you die in dota 2 rofl

[Deleted]

MOBA
Massively Obnoxious Bunch of Assholes.

This is all I can think of when I hear of anything to do with the MOBA community. for some strange reason the most level headed people suddenly become rage filled monsters when playing this game genre and things don't go their way or that they have a good game and rub it in the noses of other people. It is a shame really.

As for the OP and giving constructive criticism, don't bother unless it is a team that you play with on a regular basis.

[stabetha]

I think it's in part because there are so many assholes out there who don't try to be nice that people automatically assume everyone who says anything is trying to scold, berate or shame, rather than actually be helpful or instructive.

I generally try to use "please" and phrase things like "fyi, if you haven't played this map/hero/whatever, [tip]" or "it would be helpful if you do X because that helps Y." It's a lot more typing than just giving brief instructions, but in my experience, people listen better.


It's not about them being pansies, it's using language that projects an indication that one's intention is not to be helpful. If you phrase things in a way that looks like you're on the offensive, they will naturally react on the defensive and will be way less receptive. If you really want people to actually listen to you, you have to use language that makes them feel like you're working with them, not against them. That's not about being overly sensitive, that's basic human nature.

If they start crying or flipping out, that's overly sensitive. But assuming people are just being critical or jerks, that's probably more indicative of being jaded or cynical about people's intentions online, and honestly it's with good reason since there are a shitton of people in online games who care more about berating people for doing stupid things than helping them to stop doing stupid things.

this pretty much sums it up but let me add that this game has brought a lot of new players to the MOBA genre (myself included) and the other ones out there have a reputation of being full of elitist jackasses that rage anytime a mistake is made so that's what is expected.

[Deleted]

I see a lot of people doing completely pointless things. Like running way too close to forts, chasing way too hard and dying because they're greedy for a kill...

All you can do is say, without rancor or spite, what should be done and how the team should act and then simply hope that they care about what you said. THere's little else to do. Try to make it sound encouraging, like "If we do X and Y we'll pull together and win this".

[Deleted]

I would say you did yourself no favors by lashing out. Someone starts talking like that I won't be interested in anything he has to say either. However, giving constructive criticism is difficult even at the best of times. You can pay homage to all the manners and political correctness but at the end of the day you are saying someone is doing something wrong, which means they are incompetent and bad at what they are doing, and it is something a lot of people will not react well to.

Of course, there is also the middle ground, where you may have observed something but your conclusion was wrong. Happens all the time, when someone shouts across the battleground about something someone shouldn't be doing, and turns out they had a perfectly valid reason for doing it.

So... honestly, your chances are never above 50-50, and with odds like that, personally, I don't find it worth the trouble. Just let them do their thing, maybe say something if you're bored and dead for the next 50 seconds, and just go on with whatever you were doing.

[Beazy]

It's going to take a long time for the new users to learn that this game is different than other MOBAS. I've noticed that I'm losing a lot more in public games because people are trying to play it like LoL or DotA. I see Zeratul and Illidan try to 1 v 5 on a daily basis . . . they just don't understand its not going to happen in HotS. Every time I try to say something, I have some scrub tell me they are LeageOfLegends DreamHack League players and they know what they are doing. . . Only time can help HotS.

[unfilteredJW]

I'm loving the team play aspects so much. Slowly getting a group of friends together for a few nights a week.

I'm not a fan of playing with randoms mainly because I still have a lot to learn and it's easier with friends.

[Deleted]

People, more often then not, know when they fucked up. Especially in moba, they are probably already mad before you actually said anything. Then you come in, if you're really really nice they'll take it like you're patronizing, you're not nice you're an asshole.
Actually it works really well if you're nice from the get go.

[Hand Banana]

Having played ~700 games, I have run into maybe 10 that have been a bit toxic.

Ex: I had a Jaina who was specced like an idiot, thought she was some super pro and preforming below average. When she decided to blame me for landing a 3/3 person mosh pit while she ran away instead of doing something (not even a blizzard as she ran), saying I went in at the wrong time because it was 2v3 (you're Jaina, I just handed you a triple kill). I then commented on her spec being that of the grabage variety, and she shit-talked all game while still preforming poorly. After the game was over she decided to look me up and message me saying "Lol you Jaina is only lvl 9 you are trash and your advice is trash." I spammed "Child Please" at her until she stopped.

That was the worst experience I have had so far, but to be honest in probably 100 LoL games I played back when I unfortunately played it, I have had less toxicity in 700 games than those in 100. I really don't have any problems with the community, possibly because of the MMR I play at, dunno.

OT: Pinging a person usually pisses them off btw, so I would recommend against it. Other than that, I usually just say things like "Raynor boss," or "Tyrael rotate mid I'll brb" to get someone to do things. Not polite but not really in an aggressive way either, works for me most of the time. If someone isn't grouping I don't attack them personally unless its getting out of hand, I usually say "Group," or "We need to group guys" even though we all know that Zag bottom lane is the one I am referring too.