Raids in Guild Wars 2

[Maarius]

not sure if this has been posted yet:

• Bogotter's exclusive interview about raids:

• some nice info about raid-loot:

The reward system is a hybrid of old and new systems. Yes, bosses drop rare loot, the skins tailored to each specific boss. If you aren't lucky though you're also rewarded with a raid-specific currency. Once you've got enough token, you can buy that rare gear from a raid-vendor...
IF you've managed to kill the specific boss. In short: the boss reward from the vendor get's unlocked via killing the specific boss.

love it

• The raid team

Then we got some new info about who is actually in the raid-team at Anet. One of them is Jason Reynolds, the only leveldesigner in all Wildstar raids. (you know, the game which got one thing right: raids).

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/...g_on_the_raid/

http://jasongreynolds.com/resume

• raid-gameplay

Some people got some footage from the first raid boss. It's not much, but better than nothing:



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and more:



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So guess what...

No holy trinity, no berserker meta, really challenging encounters... told you so, haters

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someone on Reddit posted their info about the 3 trash-mobs and the boss:

The first area consists of three miniboss "trash mobs" and one boss at the end. All of these pulse minor AOE damage while you are within 1500m of them.

Blue Guardian
Invulnerability Boon - The blue guardian is invulnerable to damage and conditions unless you remove this boon with a boon-removing skill. Thieves, Mesmers, Necromancers, Revenants and Engineers can all do this.
Big AOE - An orange circle will appear on the ground with the bright orange contracting to the center as a timer for the explosion. Everyone needs to stack inside the circle before the explosion or take high damage. This damage cannot be dodged but can be blocked. The pulsing AOE can remove aegis so you want to use it as late as possible if you plant on blocking the damage with it.
Floaty Blue Balls - There are blue balls that fly around. If they hit you you will take some damage. If they hit the Guardian he will gain the Invulnerability Boon again so try to body block any that would. You can jump over them to avoid them if you need to.

Green Guardian
Teleport AOE - The guardian will spawn circles on the ground. If you do not move out of them quickly you will take damage and be teleported away.

Red Guardian
Physical Immunity - The red guardian can only take condition damage.
Seekers - The red guardian will spawn enemies called "Seekers" that look like red lightning elementals. The seekers will damage you if you stand in the AOE circle around them. They can be knocked back or kited. Unconfirmed - Killing a seeker next to the guardian will damage him. Although when we killed the red guardian it looked like the Seekers take no damage.

Vale Guardian
Finally the boss of the area. It seems like it has the big AOE from Blue, the teleport AOEs from Green and the seekers from Red. It may also have the immunity boon from blue but fighting it caused everyone in our squad to DC. At 50% HP it splits into the three miniboss guardians who each spawn in front of their respective pillar.

[zito]

the raids look really good. It seems you need everything from stuns and CCs to group heals to people who can take hits. Zerker meta looks dead. Now they need to do this for 5 mans.

[Deleted]

my casual heart aches

but awesome nonetheless

[Fencers]

Based on the Reddit thread related to GW2 raid design, I think it is a major problem for the design being created for game players. I am not confident the design is going to be interesting.

Also gear gating is really contradictory to the game.

I doubted Arena.net would be able to reconcile raid design in the context GW2 gameplay. I think I will be proven right- they are not particularly good game designers secondary systems. Their strength is in core gameplay interactions.

[Maarius]

Based on the Reddit thread related to GW2 raid design, I think it is a major problem for the design being created for game players. I am not confident the design is going to be interesting.

Also gear gating is really contradictory to the game.

I doubted Arena.net would be able to reconcile raid design in the context GW2 gameplay. I think I will be proven right- they are not particularly good game designers secondary systems. Their strength is in core gameplay interactions.

There is no gear gating. Anet stated that it's balanced around ascended gear, not more and not less. Some of the players will have defensive gear, some will have offensive gear. Players who are better than others (see: Lupi solo) will contribute more to the fight so there's also room for players who don't have ascended gear.

It was quite obvious, when you've seen the raid in action, that there is no gear gating in GW2-raids. Just the boss-numbers are balanced around a higher number. This doesn't mean that it's balanced around everyone in the raid wearing ascended berserker... it makes no sense since you need also guys with condi damage, probably a bit healing (waterfields blasting is also fine) etc.

It's all about coordination, movement, knowing what to do and how to adjust your skills/traits. Players needed boon-removal, so Mesmers trait into boon removal on shatter, equip a sword or use boon-removal-on-crit sigils. At no time I had the feeling that you'll need more berserkers in ascended gear.

And about the statement that Anet can't design good raids, I'd reconsider. Jason Reynolds is responsible for Wildstar's raids. That is all.

[Fencers]

There is no gear gating. Anet stated that it's balanced around ascended gear, not more and not less.

I read a statement the other day where Anet had said the early bosses in a raid could be completed in exotic gear but that later bosses in the same raid are designed under the assumption of ascended gear.

Even assuming ascended gear is a form of gating. Ascended gear was previously an arbitrary metric tied to a single game mode's mechanics.

This is explicitly gear gating.

And about the statement that Anet can't design good raids, I'd reconsider. Jason Reynolds is responsible for Wildstar's raids. That is all.

This is of no relveance and is also not in line with that I actually said.

[Deleted]

I read a statement the other day where Anet had said the early bosses in a raid could be completed in exotic gear but that later bosses in the same raid are designed under the assumption of ascended gear.

Even assuming ascended gear is a form of gating. Ascended gear was previously an arbitrary metric tied to a single game mode's mechanics.

This is explicitly gear gating.

I don't see a problem with this though. It's not like you will have to get a more powerful tier of gear for the next raid. Ascended is all you will ever need in this game. The only advantage legendary armor will have is the ability to change stats whenever you want.

Right now, when asking the community wether it's worth it to craft ascended gear the majority says no, because it's too costly for too little (5% I think) gain. (This also makes me sceptical of how much it wil matter wether you run the raid in exotic gear or in ascended, but that aside.)

At least this would give players a reason to go for that last tier of gear. If they are interested enough in these raids ofcourse.

People wanted hard raids, and that's what they'll get. I doubt they could do that by aiming them at the casual non-ascended players.

[Fencers]

I don't see a problem with this though.

The problem is that it is contradictory design.

I don't care about the game, per se. I do and only care about game design. This is inconsistent game design.

[Deleted]

The problem is that it is contradictory design.

I don't care about the game, per se. I do and only care about game design. This is inconsistent game design.

So they're not allowed to try different routes? Things that could improve the game?

[Valeron]

So they're not allowed to try different routes? Things that could improve the game?

It's futile to argue with Fencers, just nod your head and move on

[Deleted]

It's futile to argue with Fencers, just nod your head and move on

I usually try to but it's hard when (s)he makes such confusing statements.

[zito]

The problem is that it is contradictory design.

I don't care about the game, per se. I do and only care about game design. This is inconsistent game design.

I believe they did a miscommunication. Ascended gear isn't required but it's being tuned around that amount of total stats. There is literally nothing preventing you from entering the raid with exotics or even masterwork. Hence there is no gear gating because nothing is preventing you access or completion.

[Fencers]

So they're not allowed to try different routes? Things that could improve the game?

None of this is excluded by consistent design.

I believe they did a miscommunication.

Possibly. We shall see. I am doubtful how this gameplay will be reconciled, however.

I usually try to but it's hard when (s)he makes such confusing statements.

I am no sure why you are confused. Game design is an artist's conception- consistent design which can be played is the goal of video games. To varying degrees developers achieve or fall short of consistent design, that is the nature of video game creation. They have an objective set of operation (gameplay) and a subjective set of goals (metaphor).

Consumer and end user concerns are not particularly interesting to me.

[Maarius]

I'm not an english native speaker, but I don't think that's the reason why I don't understand you, Fencers. I also have no idea how I would have misquoted you.

First and foremost a videogame-designer should strive for creating fun games. Many people still quote the Manifesto and insist Anet has lied to us. During development a lot of things change though. Not because they want to betray you or their principles but because it makes the game better. Not for casuals or hardcore players (I hate those terms) but for the player in general.

In the end that's what Anet is doing. They've created areas for a playerbase who desperately wants a challenge via controlled (instanced) group content. Raids. Why balancing around ascended gear? If they would balance it around exotic gear, good players would brake the mechanics by dpsing down enemies too fast.

[Fencers]

I also have no idea how I would have misquoted you.

I did not claim such.

First and foremost a videogame-designer should strive for creating fun games.

No such thing exists. This is purely a personal view (which is fine) independent to the creation of video games.

Design is an artist endeavor in video games. It does not necessitate any purpose other than which the designer wishes to express. That could be literally whatever they like- some games are not made to be entertainment. You, the end user or consumer, just happen to frequently (and overwhelmingly) encounter games media meant as entertainment strictly and thus have come under a impression via a combination of ignorance and marketing that the medium is strictly entertainment; or a function of entertainment.

"Fun" being the goal of game design is a false premise.

[Maarius]

"Fun" being the goal of game design is a false premise.

Is it fun? Colin Johanson about how Anet measures success.

Colin:

When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?

[Fencers]

Is it fun? Colin Johanson about how Anet measures success.

That doesn't support your statement in response to my own.

Johanson expressing his developer's goals are subjective. And do not support the assertion: "First and foremost a videogame-designer should strive for creating fun games."- that statement is false. It is as I said above, purely subjective.

This is doubly of no interest to me personally or relevant to my commentary. The latter of which is intended to express my skepticism of Anet being able to reconcile GW2's existing gameplay in the context of the raids as marketed.

[Deleted]

What in your eyes is the 'consistent design' of Gw2, fencers? Because I'm still very much confused.

[nevermore]

Design is an artist endeavor in video games. It does not necessitate any purpose other than which the designer wishes to express. That could be literally whatever they like- some games are not made to be entertainment.

(...)

"Fun" being the goal of game design is a false premise.

When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?

Johanson expressing his developer's goals are subjective.

So which one is it then?

I mean, yeah ANet does take a specific YOLO approach to game design, but then again MMORPGs have to constantly adapt to customer needs if they wish to stay alive.

After seeing footage of the first raid boss I'm actually very impressed.

[Fencers]

What in your eyes is the 'consistent design' of Gw2, fencers? Because I'm still very much confused.

I explained in the most recent post: link. Also here I raised my initial skepticism- which has not been lessened with recent information.

So which one is it then?

There is still no difference. It may be Arena.net's goal to make a "fun" game. Which is both subjective (what defines fun exactly?) and their artistic goal. However, this does not validate the statement, "a videogame-designer should strive for creating fun games." That premise is false.

It may be true for Colin Johanson or various designers at Arena.net that "fun" is a design goal for Guild Wars 2. Not for all game designers or game design. As the function of "fun" is entirely subjective and not required to the creation of video games whatsoever. There are games which exist not to entertain the end user and one can create such as they see fit too.

These are not a relevant replies to my commentary here. I am not commenting on fun, challenge, difficulty, ease, enjoyment or any such. My posts are specifically concerned with the reconciliation of various design elements in the Guild Wars 2 expansion.