Will Mythic 20man stand the test of time?

[Deja Thoris]

mages with evenese on fel lord, xhul horac. Shaman grounding totem on xhul. DK grips on manno, rouges, moonkins, hunters on blackhand. disc priest aswell would have to seriously be nerfed or nearly all mechanics design around them otherwise your pretty much required to have a disc healer in every 10 man raid group, 1 class as 50% of healers compared to much more reasonable 25% in 20man

Whats your point? Zero of them are mandatory for the fights, not like Fel Lord can't be done without a mage or Xul without a shaman.

[malgin]

Removing 10 men mythic was the dumbiest thing to do. The sub drop showed it clearly.

[Deleted]

Removing 10 men mythic was the dumbiest thing to do. The sub drop showed it clearly.

Dude... you realize only 1% of us does mythic, right? That's official numbers. The huge Wow subs drop has nothing to do with it.

[oraz4000]

Dude... you realize only 1% of us does mythic, right? That's official numbers. The huge Wow subs drop has nothing to do with it.

More than 1% did heroic in MOP.

[Deleted]

More than 1% did heroic in MOP.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...-Rift-Wardrobe

BRF opened 3 feb, after 50 days you had only 1.4% players who have killed the easiest mythic boss (darmac). But the actual % is even lower because:

"The sample is slightly biased, as players who are not in a guild are much less likely to appear in our sample. "

Since we all know that 99% of the players guildless dont really do mythic, the real % is even lower than that 1.4%. Obviously, with mythic players I mean players that actually do the current mythic content, not old mythic raids overgearing them (kargath late march was at 8%, for example, but yeah doing kargath in march isnt really raiding mythic).

Blizz always stated that the mythic community is extremly small, thinking that the huge subs loss had something to do with it is just laughable.

[manbearburd]

Whats your point? Zero of them are mandatory for the fights, not like Fel Lord can't be done without a mage or Xul without a shaman.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...0&metric=speed

[Marrilaife]

Solution: raid more than 6 hours a week.

I can pretty much assure you that any non hardcore guild won't take more than 3 raids per week and often 2 are enough for a casual guild. At least in this scenario you don't burn people out with endless wipenights, because let's be frank, if you push progression there will be wipenights, just if you have less of them and you weave farm runs in between people get more and more gear and week after week bosses become slightly easier. That's how you usually progress in casual guilds, and not by throwing extra raids into the calendar.

I played in a few casual guilds and people generally cba to log for extra raids or events.

The biggest question is what all those guilds that have usually around 10-15 people are gonna do when they clear hc and the new expansion is nowhere near close to release. For example I was in a guild that is now 12/13hc with 2 raids per week, let's say they'll take even 3 months to kill hc Archimonde and then what? They usually have 11-12 people showing up to raid.... don't see such a team suddenly doubling the size to try mythic.

[AgilityTank]

They need to go 15 man.

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Dude... you realize only 1% of us does mythic, right? That's official numbers. The huge Wow subs drop has nothing to do with it.

Yeah a bunch of people came back w/aspirations and the 20 man 1 rez hard-as-nails difficulty that most groups couldnt even touch made them realize mythic wasnt 'for them' and they quit.

Look @ the # of mythic kargath kills after 2 weeks vs the # of assault kills after 2 weeks. Plenty of ppl doing mythic are gone.

[Deleted]

People started doing 20man mythic in SoO and went into WoD with the idea that it would be like that.
Suddenly the bosses required more than 12 people to kill and the casuals became depressed.

[Kyanion]

that literally will never matter until theres only 19 people subbed to the game.

Raiding has never been better, and its due to a fixed size that they can reliably make encounters have abilities that you would never be able to balance between different raid sizes , and count on at least 1 of every class in the raid group.

Raiding has never been better? You got some data to back that statement up? Go look at the number of people that have managed to down a boss on mythic. The numbers are AWFUL. And what is stopping people? 20 man boss just to get inside the raid. Got to love being told you can't go because you only have 10 raiders.

Never be able to balance between different raid sizes? Because the 20 man fights now are SOOOOOO innovative right? You don't need one of every class, lol. There is no fight that says "A druid must do this or everyone dies".

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Its more a problem of the current playerbase not being mythic raiding material and the new people that join or joined this game in the past months not being raiding material other then that Mythic is fine and it will and should be the main raid size for Legion.

*eyeroll* Yeah because 10 man heroic guilds the prior 2 expansions are now suddenly not capable raiders anymore! DERP!

[Vestig3]

*eyeroll* Yeah because 10 man heroic guilds the prior 2 expansions are now suddenly not capable raiders anymore! DERP!

Indeed.

/10char

[Spotnick]

That thread again?

People fail to realize that instead of one 20 man group looking for 2 players, there were 2x10 man group looking for 1 player before.

IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING.. it was probably even harder to recruit due to the extreme amount of raiding guilds.

Blizzard did the best of both worlds, everything but mythic is flexible. Of course it's not going to please everybody, but sadly for you, there are also tons of guilds that raid 20 man without issues and like it.

Yes, recruiting sucks, but just look how impossible it seems to balance heroic at this point, they always need to tune the bosses.

And don't me wrong, I enjoyed 10 man raids, but I still believe if they exists they would have to be their own instances, like Karazhan.

I have no issue having 10 and 20 man raids.. just not the same instances.

[Kyanion]

Indeed.

/10char

It is really sad if you believe that.

[Vestig3]

It is really sad if you believe that.

Its sad on your side of the table.

Their capable raiders just not capable Mythic raiders.

[Kyanion]

That thread again?

People fail to realize that instead of one 20 man group looking for 2 players, there were 2x10 man group looking for 1 player before.

IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING.. it was probably even harder to recruit due to the extreme amount of raiding guilds.

Blizzard did the best of both worlds, everything but mythic is flexible. Of course it's not going to please everybody, but sadly for you, there are also tons of guilds that raid 20 man without issues and like it.

Yes, recruiting sucks, but just look how impossible it seems to balance heroic at this point, they always need to tune the bosses.

And don't me wrong, I enjoyed 10 man raids, but I still believe if they exists they would have to be their own instances, like Karazhan.

I have no issue having 10 and 20 man raids.. just not the same instances.

Does not change anything? You do realize there was more 10 man heroic raiding guilds in the prior 2 expansions than there was 20 man mythic guilds right? Even if you factor in the population changes it is not that close.

"tons of guilds" that raid 20 man without issues? There are less than 70,000 PEOPLE period that have downed a single boss in mythic. http://www.wowprogress.com/ 3415 guilds in the WORLD have at least 1 mythic kill. 68,300 people.

Now if 10 man mythic raiding was still a thing I gurantee you that you'd see more than 136k people getting kills in mythic. There are plenty of guilds that cannot get 20 people or prefer to stay with around 10 people because that is what they enjoy and they enjoy the people they play with.

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Its sad on your side of the table.

Their capable raiders just not capable Mythic raiders.

And you base this on what exactly? You are telling me my guild that could clear all the content on 10H in the past 2 expansions could not clear 10M if it was a thing? Give me a freaking break. I could snap my fucking fingers and be mythic raiding in 20M if that was what I wanted to do. However I enjoy raiding with my friends and staying in the same guild for as long as I have.

People like you are what makes me shake my head at this community.

[Vestig3]

People like you are what makes me shake my head at this community.

Likewise.

/10char

[Kyanion]

Likewise.

/10char

*pats you on the head* K I'm doing wasting my time with someone like you. Have fun being a troll or whatever it is you are trying to accomplish. I'll just reply to other people in this thread.

[Vestig3]

Dont like others opinions? now thats whats realy wrong with the community people that cant let people have their opinion about things and see everything they say as a fact.

[Gaidax]

Dont like others opinions? now thats whats realy wrong with the community people that cant let people have their opinion about things and see everything they say as a fact.

Well, you do assume a lot of assumptions here, buddy.

I too was in 10H guild for past 2 expansions and I can most definitely confirm that people there are more than capable of doing mythics, it is nonsense to claim otherwise. Our guild was ultimately destroyed by this change, because gathering 20 man who are not bumbling idiots on low pop realm is brutal. In the end about 6 people from there including me went and applied to some mythic guild on the other realm, which we raid Mythic with now.

So saying that past expansions 10H raiders are somehow not good enough for 20M is bullshit.

[stomination]

Dont like others opinions? now thats whats realy wrong with the community people that cant let people have their opinion about things and see everything they say as a fact.

Yea most people are like that. I also feel like most people that still wanted to do mythic could have moved up to 20 man but their bias on the size held them back.

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Well, you do assume a lot of assumptions here, buddy.

I too was in 10H guild for past 2 expansions and I can most definitely confirm that people there are more than capable of doing mythics, it is nonsense to claim otherwise. Our guild was ultimately destroyed by this change, because gathering 20 man who are not bumbling idiots on low pop realm is brutal. In the end about 6 people from there including me went and applied to some mythic guild on the other realm, which we raid Mythic with now.

So saying that past expansions 10H raiders are somehow not good enough for 20M is bullshit.

And that's the point. PPl can go elsewhere and raid 20 man mythic just fine.