Will Mythic 20man stand the test of time?

[Deja Thoris]

Go ahead, call yourself whatever you want. It doesn't change reality. You know it, I know it, we all see it. You can't hide behind a label. Enjoy WoW, because what you do doesn't really matter to me. I won't ever have to rely on you in my raid, so have fun in your little bubble of sunshine and puppies.

*Not really, but they care so much.

It matters so little to you that you've written thousands of words on just what does and does not constitute a mythic raider.

To paraphrase you it sounds like you want to co-opt all that "glory" to you - you elite mythic raider studmuffin!

[jMerliN]

It matters so little to you that you've written thousands of words on just what does and does not constitute a mythic raider.

To paraphrase you it sounds like you want to co-opt all that "glory" to you - you elite mythic raider studmuffin!

Me and the other 50k+ players who will achieve that. Damn, all to myself!

[Fazer]

Nobody calls someone who ran a few hundred meters in a marathon a marathon runner. And the definition is self evident. If you call yourself a mythic raider, but you wouldn't recruit another mythic raider because they're 3/13, then that label is completely useless for them. What does it actually tell you?

Words are not self-explanatory. When you say that you are a Mythic raider, it's up to the person hearing those words to judge what you mean by it and you can always define what you mean by it. The word "Mythic raider" has no actual meaning by history or even consensus, so it really isn't even etymologically comparable to doctorates or mathematicians, who are nominated by some authority who has been given the power to do so.

You hit the nail with "What does it actually tell you", since it only tells you what you think it means. This is a common problem with language. If people raiding Mythic are not classified as "Mythic raiders", what does it take for one to become a "Mythic raider" and why?

[Kyanion]

Go ahead, call yourself whatever you want. It doesn't change reality. You know it, I know it, we all see it. You can't hide behind a label. Enjoy WoW, because what you do doesn't really matter to me. I won't ever have to rely on you in my raid, so have fun in your little bubble of sunshine and puppies.

And thank Christ we don't have to raid with you either, as you'd be out on your ass in plenty of guilds despite how great you are. Your attitude is that of an entitled elitist thank probably thinks they are even better than they are. Congrats you found a guild with 19 other people to raid with. You can drop the engineer/doctor analogies as you just continue to look really clueless.

Fun fact: No one said 1/13M is equal to 13/13M in terms of skill. All that was said is that they are mythic raiders. If they killed a boss in mythic they are a mythic raider. If someone was playing semi-pro baseball would you not call them a 'baseball player'? Even if they were not good enough to play professionally they are still in fact a baseball player.

If someone gets ahead of the curve for clearing mythic there is a date attached to the acheivement. If people really cared enough they could compare how long it took them to do it based on that. Not everyone is capable of clearing the content and that is fine, but to say that person is not a mythic raider because they ended at 5/13 or cleared it after X nerfs is not a mythic raider is beyond silly.

- - - Updated - - -

Words are not self-explanatory. When you say that you are a Mythic raider, it's up to the person hearing those words to judge what you mean by it and you can always define what you mean by it. The word "Mythic raider" has no actual meaning by history or even consensus, so it really isn't even etymologically comparable to doctorates or mathematicians, who are nominated by some authority who has been given the power to do so.

You hit the nail with "What does it actually tell you", since it only tells you what you think it means. This is a common problem with language. If people raiding Mythic are not classified as "Mythic raiders", what does it take for one to become a "Mythic raider" and why?

I think he believes 'mythic raider' means 13/13M. But it is even MORE than that. It also means 13/13M but clearing it in X amount of time. Before major nerfs or other things. His definition is so warped it is comical. When he says he is a mythic raider he'll have to become an author to give the definition and the terms of being such a raider. Oh wait he wouldn't be an author if the thing he wrote wasn't X pages or published or...you know what, fuck it.

[jMerliN]

Words are not self-explanatory. When you say that you are a Mythic raider, it's up to the person hearing those words to judge what you mean by it and you can always define what you mean by it. The word "Mythic raider" has no actual meaning by history or even consensus, so it really isn't even etymologically comparable to doctorates or mathematicians, who are nominated by some authority who has been given the power to do so.

You hit the nail with "What does it actually tell you", since it only tells you what you think it means. This is a common problem with language. If people raiding Mythic are not classified as "Mythic raiders", what does it take for one to become a "Mythic raider" and why?

It seems pretty self evident just being consistent with how we tend to label people in general that:

Raider - Someone who finishes normal while the content is relevant.
Heroic Raider - Someone who finishes heroic while the content is relevant.
Mythic Raider - Someone who finishes mythic while the content is relevant.

So for the next 10 months anyone who wants to put in the effort to improve themselves and finish HFC can become a mythic raider. Just like any reasonably healthy able bodied person can put in effort and become a marathon runner. You just have to do that thing.

I don't see how that's unreasonable. And I don't understand why people who have done a few bosses are so adamant and loud about declaring themselves a mythic raider. The point of mythic raiding guilds is that their goal is to clear the instance. It's not to just go in, kill some bosses, and be happy that they killed some bosses. There's a distinction there, their goal is to finish the mythic content, not to just experience some of it, like mythic tourists or something.

It only seems to come up when people are trying to defend things like 10H because there were so many people who tried the first few bosses. Like that entire instance was designed for those people. I don't think it was, because they couldn't do it. So to say we lost those people when looking at mythic numbers today is a bit misguided -- those people didn't actually finish the content, and the completion rate of HFC is currently ahead of where SoO was when you factor in subscriber loss (which likely just means that fewer mythic raiders quit the game than did other people, and that makes complete sense when the only great content in WoD is the raid content). To label those people as mythic raiders in the defense of a system that someone wants to continue, regardless of actual data that shows that mythic is completely healthy is just a tactic to justify their absurdist claims that 20 man mythic "killed mythic raiding."

Basically the answer to this thread is: yes, it's doing better now than it did in SoO with 2 million less subscribers, and even with fewer people engaging in the content. I think Blizzard is happy with it, and most of the raiders doing the content are happy with it, so it's going to stay around. The issues of sub loss and dead realms are tangential and not caused by 20 mythic, but only make it harder to start for people who aren't actually aiming to clear the instance (because those people are by the numbers very successful this tier).

[Kyanion]

It seems pretty self evident just being consistent with how we tend to label people in general that:

Raider - Someone who finishes normal while the content is relevant.
Heroic Raider - Someone who finishes heroic while the content is relevant.
Mythic Raider - Someone who finishes mythic while the content is relevant.

Except most people DON'T label like you do. Heroic raider is someone doing heroic content, as long as they got a kill in heroic they are doing heroic content thus a Heroic Raider. Finishing the content isn't part of the equation. They'd say 'cleared heroic'.

[Fazer]

I understand that that definition is your definition to the term, but not everyone agrees to it. You can also define raiders by:

Normal Raider - Raids normal difficulty as main progress
Heroic Raider - Raids heroic difficulty as main progress (with Ahead of the Curve raider being a term used for a person that has cleared it)
Mythic Raider - Raids mythic difficulty as main progress (with Cutting Edge raider being a term used for a person that has cleared it)

Better just get over it that you cannot define the term on your own even though you'd love to. I don't claim the above is the absolute truth and everyone should agree to it, but the way I see it.

[Wilderness]

I think that a couple of pages of debating about what the term "mythic raider" means to a few people just highlights that there's nothing constructive left to be discussed in this thread. Closing it.