Is taking advantage of someone drunk Rape?

[Theodarzna]

It's not about deciding later. When you are intoxicated you can't give consent so the "fuck me!" was null from the beginning.

Why would this be the case? I'd be very responsible for my decisions to kill someone.

Lets reverse the genders, lets face it we are all picturing a sober man and a drunk woman, what if the woman is sober and the man is drunk?

[Deleted]

Cant imagine the ammount of rape i did if it was.
Alcohol doesnt make it impossible to make a decision though.
What i find odd is:

None of those 150+ women i banged woke up screaming trying to sue me. So its not rape. They all agreed to having sex, some under influence, no harm done.

However, under the exact same circumstances, if a girl decides she regrets her decision the next morning, im supposed to be a rapist?
that shit is wrong.

[Slant]

i refuse to blame others for my own poor decision making.

nah, beer + pain meds = not good. I haz homework to finish!

beer + pain meds = the best. Saves me money, need less beer to lower your limits that way. :P

On the other hand, the word "homework" kinda scares me away. You go do your teenage stuff, I'll leave you alone. :P

[Theodarzna]

I would love to see the names and faces of all of you who think taking advantage of someone who is drunk so your loser ass can have sex with them is somehow okay.

Post away, studs. Let us see the mugs of all of you social misfits in all of your bravery.

I bet every one of you should never be left alone with children either.

Lets see the faces of the goony beardmen hipsters who think they are defending all of the "m'lady's" from the big bad evil menz out there.

[Crissi]

beer + pain meds = the best. Saves me money, need less beer to lower your limits that way. :P

On the other hand, the word "homework" kinda scares me away. You go do your teenage stuff, I'll leave you alone. :P

*grad school thank you very much. Because "a 20 page Statement of research intent on how to do my thesis' is to long to type vs just homework.

[Deleted]

It's not about deciding later. When you are intoxicated you can't give consent so the "fuck me!" was null from the beginning.

If your drunk and you decide to kick someones ass. Does the judge forgive you because u werent liable?
If your drunk asnd you decide to run over a family with your car, do you get excused because "i had a little too much to drink".
If you tell the cops to go fuck themselfs, do you believe they will not detain you for insulting them because you smelled of alcohol?

Then how the fuck does getting drunk affect your decision making about sex? Your just as fucking responsible for your own decisions when drunk. You decided to get drunk. Dumbass mistakes while drunk and a consequence of that, including sex.

[Slant]

Lets see the faces of the goony beardmen hipsters who think they are defending all of the "m'lady's" from the big bad evil menz out there.

I don't give a shit about "m'lady's", but I still will make sure that the other person is not too drunk to actually figure out what I'm doing while getting busy with her... personal preference, so you can bite my ass. I like my women more or less sober. :P

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*grad school thank you very much. Because "a 20 page Statement of research intent on how to do my thesis' is to long to type vs just homework.

Oh ok, hey how would I know. I just read homework and I think "child school". :P

[Slant]

I would have asked you if I showed signs of not wanting it anymore (through my body language). I may not be able to articulate it through speech but I pretty sure I could show you that I didn't want it anymore by other means. If you picked up on the cues and chose to ignore it, I'd definitely be upset. If I honestly didn't show you anything, then it's not your fault.

You're asking the potential rapists "Hey, last night... did I show any sign of not wanting sex?" and expect him to actually go "Yeah babe, you buckled like a fucking bronco, but I got you under control just in time..."?

LOL

[Crissi]

I don't give a shit about "m'lady's", but I still will make sure that the other person is not too drunk to actually figure out what I'm doing while getting busy with her... personal preference, so you can bite my ass. I like my women more or less sober. :P

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Oh ok, hey how would I know. I just read homework and I think "child school". :P

Awesome for you. I also prefer to remember with clarity the sex I have.

I also may be a bit biased. My mom had to testify when her friend killed 3 others in the car cause he drove drunk. Because she was in the car but she got out about 10 minutes before he crashed. I was almost not born!

[Deleted]

I would have asked you if I showed signs of not wanting it anymore (through my body language). I may not be able to articulate it through speech but I pretty sure I could show you that I didn't want it anymore by other means. If you picked up on the cues and chose to ignore it, I'd definitely be upset. If I honestly didn't show you anything, than it's not your fault.

How is anthing other than kicking and screaming "Get the fuck off me" a "clear sign of not wanting too".

"I twitched my leg like that because i didnt want to! and then i sucked your dick anyway! How did you not read the signs you rapist!"

[nextormento]

Or by your logic, if you agree that drunk driving is a bad idea because the person driving cannot make proper decisions, how come you think persons drunk can make proper decisions regarding sex? :P

Always found the analogy kind of weird.
The decisions around handling a 2000 kilogram machine are different than those around having sex.
It's about the risk those decisions have on 3rd parties. Drunk driving may kill someone. Drunk sex doesn't; most of the time, at least.

[Slant]

Awesome for you. I also prefer to remember with clarity the sex I have.

I also may be a bit biased. My mom had to testify when her friend killed 3 others in the car cause he drove drunk. Because she was in the car but she got out about 10 minutes before he crashed. I was almost not born!

Hey, good stuff! Good that you're alive!

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I'm hoping I'd remember and ask you to get your view, knowing full well what happened. But it would take an honest person to answer it if I didn't remember.

I guess it would be on your conscience.

See, I hate having those kind of trick questions! That's stupid woman bullshit... why ask if you know what happened? Jesus... :P

[Theodarzna]

I don't give a shit about "m'lady's", but I still will make sure that the other person is not too drunk to actually figure out what I'm doing while getting busy with her... personal preference, so you can bite my ass. I like my women more or less sober. :P

I can respect that call you make.

The thing I'm getting at is that I personally think this is overblown. Most of the cases of drunk sex are between two people who are both drunk, or sufficiently intoxicated. We all lose a bit of our inhibitions when intoxicated, our standards slip. IMHO If I wanted to make sober decisions of a responsible adult I wouldn't be drunk in the first place. I'm drunk to be drunk, and I don't expect the whole world to take care of me while I lose my mind for awhile.

This works both ways, Women get drunk and have sex with equally or even more drunk men. Ugly girls get laid because their attractiveness increases as men's sobriety decreases. This shits fucked up, I know. But we are all assuming a scenario that is the stuff of Moral Panic hysteria and not reflective of real life situations for the most part. Yeah a guy who is sober and gets girls buzzed to get laid is a creep, a bad person, but is he a rapist? I don't think so. Most of the time however we are talking about guys who drunk, fucking girls who are drunk and when the next morning happens it might have been a bad decision but I suspect none are rapists.

I am curious though, what would our moral guardians of womanhood do if a Lesbian predator on women in this way? Or even two drunk girls have sex and one regrets it next day and calls rape.

[Slant]

Always found the analogy kind of weird.
The decisions around handling a 2000 kilogram machine are different than those around having sex.
It's about the risk those decisions have on 3rd parties. Drunk driving may kill someone. Drunk sex doesn't; most of the time, at least.

Like... a new life being born? Yeah, totally not relevant to the baby. I mean sex, pfft, what could ever happen...

[nextormento]

Like... a new life being born? Yeah, totally not relevant to the baby. I mean sex, pfft, what could ever happen...

Who said it's not relevant? I said the decisions are different.
I'll take an unexpected pregnancy, which can be interrupted, over killing some pedestrians and a dog any day of the week, thank you.

[Slant]

It's more of a question to you. What if you did see those cues? Would you stop, ignore it, think it's nothing? How far would she have to go with those cues, since she did say she didn't actually want it.

Haha, you're cute. If you were in a state so drunk that I don't think you're entirely yourself, I won't and did refuse to have sex with you. I don't dig that kind of shit at all. At the point you're hinting at, she'd actually have to beg for sex for me to consider it... jesus, do I want a woman puking all over me while I'm getting busy? Heck no...

[Deleted]

Crying, turning away, not showing signs of interest, making more movements with your body that show dislike or not wanting it.

Tears make me cum faster.

No but seriously, who fucks a crying chick? Massive bonerblocker right there.

[Slant]

Who said it's not relevant? I said the decisions are different.
I'll take an unexpected pregnancy, which can be interrupted, over killing some pedestrians and a dog any day of the week, thank you.

Yes, now you're crossing over into abortion territory, that decision is not quite as easy as you make it out to be... You can't make that comparison, btw. It's unethical to weigh lives like stock. But by now you're just arguing for argument's sake, so I'll leave you be with the happy thought that I think whatever you think is irrelevant I think is very relevant to the woman and the baby.

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Tears make me cum faster.

No but seriously, who fucks a crying chick? Massive bonerblocker right there.

I kinda did once... honest to god, she made a face like she was in pain. Never again have I asked her like 10 times if she was in pain and everytime she said no, it's all perfect, don't stop, keep going... confusing as fuck, let me tell you.

[nextormento]

Yes, now you're crossing over into abortion territory, that decision is not quite as easy as you make it out to be... You can't make that comparison, btw. It's unethical to weigh lives like stock. But by now you're just arguing for argument's sake, so I'll leave you be with the happy thought that I think whatever you think is irrelevant I think is very relevant to the woman and the baby.

What the heck are you on about?
I haven't made any claim on relevancy. Just that the analogy to drunk driving is all sorts of absurd.
I'm not making the comparison: you are.

[Ishayu]

If the person did not consent by saying they wanted sex, then it's obviously rape. If a person is merely doing things he or she wouldn't do normally, then I think it depends on the intent of the people involved, morally. If the intent was for one person to take advantage of the other person's mental state, then that's pretty close to rape in my book if it isn't rape outright. However, if both were drunk and decided to have sex when they normally wouldn't have, for instance, then it's definitely not rape; just a bad decision.

Unfortunately, finding out what exactly happened will depend on witnesses, which are often going to be drunk as well (because these things can happen at parties) and the people involved themselves, which might have been drunk and might lie. It's an impossibly grey area.

With all that said, I definitely prefer "Innocent until PROVEN guilty". That means, in this case, that only if a very plausible story where one abused the other can be established should it be considered rape under the law.