View Poll Results: Is taking advantage of someone drunk Rape?

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  • Yes

    294 50.34%
  • No

    290 49.66%
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  1. #61
    "Taking advantage" clearly implies that they would not have had sex with you if they were not drunk.

    Ergo, you are taking advantage of the fact that they are unable to think clearly due to chemical influence in order to have sex with them. Ethically, it's no different than dropping any of the "date rape" drugs into their drink.

    Even without that particular phrasing, it comes down to a simple question: are you able to give consent? If you got drunk, had sex, and after the fact don't regret it, you're certainly not obligated to press charges.... but ultimately, if they're drunk, they are not able to give consent.

    Of note, courts typically refuse to enforce any contract that was signed by one party that was drunk, if the second party to the contract was aware of the intoxication and took advantage of it to get the contract signed. Being taken advantage of while drunk is considered a legal defense to void a contract.

    @MatthewOU2015: Yes, she took advantage of you. The real question is: do you care? If not, then you don't need to press charges and everything's fine. But she absolutely took advantage of you, and if after the fact you decided you didn't want it, it would have been rape. Period.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    By the way - I'm specifically opposed to charging someone with rape in this instance. Remember - rape means years in jail. It means registering as a sex offender and being unable to live in many areas for the rest of your life. It means never being able to get a job because you have to admit to a felony. It means, basically, your life is utterly destroyed. Does it really make sense to do this to someone who was (probably drunk himself) and unable to infer whether the person was having sex just because she was drunk? I'm ok with sending them to counselling, or requiring they don't drink for a while, community service, whatever. I just think rape needs to be saved for more serious offenders.
    If one person was drunk and the other was not, and the one who was drunk wouldn't have said yes if he/she was sober I don't care even slightly what happens to them. Jail, sex offender registry, go wild.

    If they're both drunk, then neither was able to give consent; either both should be charged, or neither should be charged (ideally neither).

    The fact that in situations where both are drunk, the man is liable to get charged and the woman is not is a reflection of negative bias in society leading to improper application of the law. (Situations like this strike as being as absurd as charging a teen who texts nude pictures of himself/herself with child pornography; technically you can make the case under the law, but it's clearly not in the spirit of the law and it's clearly not going to help.)

  2. #62
    The Undying Butter Emails's Avatar
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    Coherently drunk, no. If they're stumbling, staggering, heavily slurring and very clearly not able to think straight then yes, it is. It's pretty damn easy to tell the difference too.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    "Taking advantage" clearly implies that they would not have had sex with you if they were not drunk.

    Ergo, you are taking advantage of the fact that they are unable to think clearly due to chemical influence in order to have sex with them. Ethically, it's no different than dropping any of the "date rape" drugs into their drink.

    Even without that particular phrasing, it comes down to a simple question: are you able to give consent? If you got drunk, had sex, and after the fact don't regret it, you're certainly not obligated to press charges.... but ultimately, if they're drunk, they are not able to give consent.

    Of note, courts typically refuse to enforce any contract that was signed by one party that was drunk, if the second party to the contract was aware of the intoxication and took advantage of it to get the contract signed. Being taken advantage of while drunk is considered a legal defense to void a contract.

    @MatthewOU2015: Yes, she took advantage of you. The real question is: do you care? If not, then you don't need to press charges and everything's fine. But she absolutely took advantage of you, and if after the fact you decided you didn't want it, it would have been rape. Period.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If one person was drunk and the other was not, and the one who was drunk wouldn't have said yes if he/she was sober I don't care even slightly what happens to them. Jail, sex offender registry, go wild.

    If they're both drunk, then neither was able to give consent; either both should be charged, or neither should be charged (ideally neither).

    The fact that in situations where both are drunk, the man is liable to get charged and the woman is not is a reflection of negative bias in society leading to improper application of the law. (Situations like this strike as being as absurd as charging a teen who texts nude pictures of himself/herself with child pornography; technically you can make the case under the law, but it's clearly not in the spirit of the law and it's clearly not going to help.)
    Seems too grey an area - how does the person tell that the other person wouldn't have said yes? Impossible standard to prove or even or the other person to know what's wrong.

    JTBC, my stance in this area reflects my view of incarceration as a whole - I think our society is way too quick to ruin lives with long jail sentences and excessively penurious punishments. You're advocating punishing someone for something they might not have known was wrong at the time they were doing it, because the other party to the act decides later that it was, and that punishment is basically, "ok, might as well give up on having any sort of success for the rest of your life." It seems like a crazy perspective to me - I'd urge to not be so quick to throw lives away.
    Last edited by Scrod; 2015-09-20 at 05:07 AM.

  4. #64
    Scarab Lord bergmann620's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    That's a specious argument. Stealing is always bad. Violence is always bad.
    But you're not stealing. Yes, you're taking it, but she didn't tell you not to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    Sex is usually an enjoyable act, unlike getting punched in the face or having your money stolen.
    Sex with someone you want to have sex with, yes. Also, many, many people get joy out of donating money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    By the way - I'm specifically opposed to charging someone with rape in this instance. Remember - rape means years in jail. It means registering as a sex offender and being unable to live in many areas for the rest of your life. It means never being able to get a job because you have to admit to a felony. It means, basically, your life is utterly destroyed. Does it really make sense to do this to someone who was (probably drunk himself) and unable to infer whether the person was having sex just because she was drunk? I'm ok with sending them to counselling, or requiring they don't drink for a while, community service, whatever. I just think rape needs to be saved for more serious offenders.
    You're conflating two different circumstances.

    1) Person 'A' is drunk. You purposely leverage their lack of coherence to coerce them into sex..

    2) Person 'A' is drunk. You want to have sex with them and it seems like they want to have sex with you.

    The answer is really in the question. Are you intending to take advantage of them? It's all on the intent.
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  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Nurvus's Avatar
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    It really depends on many factors, but keep this in mind:

    If you take advantage of someone extremely horny is it considered rape?
    If so, you can easily make a compelling argument stating that women rape men all the time, right?
    Last edited by Nurvus; 2015-09-20 at 05:52 AM.
    Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
    Why did you necro a thread?

  6. #66
    The Unstoppable Force Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    Is it rape to take advantage of someone's loss of all inhibitions and self restraint that they wouldn't have had sex if they was sober
    Is that Rape?
    A fair number of states specifically call out intoxication as blocking the ability to give consent, and therefore, not a valid defense against a rape charge. What you're asking is a matter of law, not lay opinion.

    That said, two things:
    a) You specifically call out "they wouldn't have had sex if they were sober". Are you asking for moral and/or ethical validation for something you know for a fact your partner doesn't want to do? Try it this way: I come to you, and ask you to give me $100. You're drunk, so you do it. And the only reason you give me the $100 is because you're drunk -- you would not do it when you're sober. Whether or not what I did qualifies as theft is one thing, but you're going to be pretty upset when I don't return the money, aren't you? Would you be upset if I refused to return the $100? If I just said "it's ok, you said I could have it when you were too drunk to refuse" would you just sit back there and accept it? Does that seem fair to you? Does that seem pleasant to you?

    Now replace "you give me $100" with "I penetrate you with my penis"

    That's a lot more direct than I like to get on these forums, but the point doesn't really sell itself with a vague analogy. Imagine what you would feel if some guy did this to you. Then ask, "should I do it to her?"

    b) I would easily rate every sexual encounter when she was sober above every sexual encounter where she was drunk. If someone's so drunk they're unable to give consent, they're also losing a lot of coordination, focus, and various fine motor skills.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    But you're not stealing. Yes, you're taking it, but she didn't tell you not to.



    Sex with someone you want to have sex with, yes. Also, many, many people get joy out of donating money.



    You're conflating two different circumstances.

    1) Person 'A' is drunk. You purposely leverage their lack of coherence to coerce them into sex..

    2) Person 'A' is drunk. You want to have sex with them and it seems like they want to have sex with you.

    The answer is really in the question. Are you intending to take advantage of them? It's all on the intent.
    I think you misunderstood my point - I'm saying you can't compare stealing to rape because intent matters much more with rape. If you go in someone's house and take their belongs, its theft. If you have sex with someone, it's (usually) not rape.

    To your second point - ok so it's based on your intent?

    Judge asks Person A: "Did you mean to rape person B?"
    Person A: "Nope."
    Judge: "Innocent of all charges!"

  8. #68
    You're using wrong words " taking advantage of" is rape. Plain and simple, you're knowingly taking advantage of that person. Now if you're drunk, and both parties start flirting and start fucking, that's just drunken sex.

    If it's a girl out if you're league, then "seize the opportunity".
    "Last time I checked, Cain didn't bludgeon Abel with a Gameboy; Genghis Khan didn't have an Xbox Live account; and Hitler didn't play Crash Bandicoot." -- Tommy Tallarico

  9. #69
    Legally, it's a case by case basis. Personally, I'd say 99.99% cases, it is rape, and people who take advantage of drunk (or, hell, take advantage of people in any way at all, really) people are clearly terrible human beings, and I wish there was something that could be done about it. In any situation, when you have to use the term "taking advantage of" to get something sexual, it's probably rape.

  10. #70
    Flirting is rape these days. Just.. If you get horny just show up at the local police station and tell them you raped everybody. Just get it over with.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Worst case scenario get drunk too. It's not sex if he's drunk. Don't be that girl.

    EDIT: But yeah...basically... if it wouldn't be considered rape with the roles reversed then it's not rape and anybody who claims it is should be exiled from civilization.
    Last edited by Gheld; 2015-09-20 at 06:07 AM.

  11. #71
    I voted yes without reading the thread. What you described isn't even close to rape. Passed out and physically unable to say no is rape. But if they are just tipsy/drunk and lose their decision making process but are coherent enough to say yes or no. It's not rape, it's on them.

    Now in terms of morals, yeah it's quite immoral to do such a thing, unless you yourself are drunk off your ass too.

  12. #72
    Deleted
    Dunno, is it rape if a really ugly chick plasters her face with make up so you think she's actually good looking?

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    A fair number of states specifically call out intoxication as blocking the ability to give consent, and therefore, not a valid defense against a rape charge. What you're asking is a matter of law, not lay opinion.

    That said, two things:
    a) You specifically call out "they wouldn't have had sex if they were sober". Are you asking for moral and/or ethical validation for something you know for a fact your partner doesn't want to do? Try it this way: I come to you, and ask you to give me $100. You're drunk, so you do it. And the only reason you give me the $100 is because you're drunk -- you would not do it when you're sober. Whether or not what I did qualifies as theft is one thing, but you're going to be pretty upset when I don't return the money, aren't you? Would you be upset if I refused to return the $100? If I just said "it's ok, you said I could have it when you were too drunk to refuse" would you just sit back there and accept it? Does that seem fair to you? Does that seem pleasant to you?

    Now replace "you give me $100" with "I penetrate you with my penis"

    That's a lot more direct than I like to get on these forums, but the point doesn't really sell itself with a vague analogy. Imagine what you would feel if some guy did this to you. Then ask, "should I do it to her?"

    b) I would easily rate every sexual encounter when she was sober above every sexual encounter where she was drunk. If someone's so drunk they're unable to give consent, they're also losing a lot of coordination, focus, and various fine motor skills.
    I agree it is morally wrong and you shouldn't, but would it be a crime if you do
    and by the way I like your analogy about asking some one drunk for money and they give it to you but wouldn't have if they was sober would that be considered theft?

  14. #74
    2015 and people are still wondering if sexually taking advantage of someone who is impaired is rape or not. If its illegal and not-binding to sign a contract while intoxicated then how do you expect to have sex with someone who is drunk that you would not be able to otherwise and get away with it?

    ..then again this comes from a bunch of gamers, most whom never even touched or interacted with a woman outside of business or online.
    Last edited by death87; 2015-09-20 at 06:22 AM.

  15. #75
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    Im not referring to passed out drunk or incoherent drunk. I'm referring to drunk enough to loose all inhibitions all self restraint drunk. the level of drunkenness you will do things you wouldn't do sober
    Is it rape to take advantage of someone's loss of all inhibitions and self restraint that they wouldn't have had sex if they was sober
    Is that Rape?
    It would depend on if the one of them was sober. If your both drunk, who cares?

  16. #76
    I don't think it is by the op's definition. But as a dude, you should always play it safe and not jump in bed with someone you've just met coz if she changes her mind and cries rape, the court will almost always take her side.

  17. #77
    Herald of the Titans Xisa's Avatar
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    You have to be really, really careful with that.

    I mean, if it's someone you've a mutual attraction with, that's one thing. If it's someone who would otherwise say no but is in an unusual circumstance (IE you're both so hammered you don't know up from down)...try to say no.

    All it takes is one thing to be remembered wrong, and you are in for a world of hurt.
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  18. #78
    No, being drunk is not an excuse. If you kill someone while drunk, also you can't say you didn't mean it, it was the alcohol doing the horrible things. We should thank alcohol, otherwise only pretty people would fuck and make children.

  19. #79
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by death87 View Post
    2015 and people are still wondering if sexually taking advantage of someone who is impaired is rape or not. If its illegal and not-binding to sign a contract while intoxicated then how do you expect to have sex with someone who is drunk that you would not be able to otherwise and get away with it?

    ..then again this comes from a bunch of gamers, most whom never even touched or interacted with a woman outside of business or online.
    If it was illegal and not-binding to sign a conctract at any level of intoxication you could sue every bar to the ground if they still serve you after your first beer. Don't be silly.

  20. #80
    Herald of the Titans Xisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosotti View Post
    No, being drunk is not an excuse. If you kill someone while drunk, also you can't say you didn't mean it, it was the alcohol doing the horrible things. We should thank alcohol, otherwise only pretty people would fuck and make children.
    You can absolutely say it.

    Just like you can say "We were both drunk, and you started it! How the fuck is that rape?"

    Doesn't mean the people you want to listen will.
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes
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