Is it murder when somone kills a fetus that may have been legally aborted?

[zenkai]

the recent abortion thread got me thinking..

is it considered murder (first,second,third degree w/e) when you cause the death of a fetus inside a woman's womb, a fetus that may have however still been legally aborted by the woman, but without causing any bodily harm to the woman herself, except suffering a miscarriage of course.

legally speaking and from a moral point of view

what do you think, mmo-champs?

It's not uncommon for someone who murders a pregnant woman to be charged with 2 counts of murder

[Deleted]

It's not uncommon for someone who murders a pregnant woman to be charged with 2 counts of murder

pretty ridicilous if you ask me

[Xandrigity]

It varies state to state. There are laws on the books for "fetacide".


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feticide

[zenkai]

pretty ridicilous if you ask me

Say that to the father who just lost his wife and child

[Deleted]

Say that to the father who just lost his wife and child

if it ain't murder when the mother does it herself, it ain't murder when anyone else does it

[xero5141]

Yes, there are. Scott Peterson was given First Degree murder of his wife and Second Degree murder of the baby she was carrying. But I don't know what would happen if the mother was unharmed, yet the baby was intentionally killed.

But the difference is, OP is asking about a baby that could still be legally aborted (first trimester), in Scott Peterson's case the baby was full term.

[Itisamuh]

so wether it is murder or not is decided by the woman's whim?

that sounds pretty messed up to me

stop deleting your posts jeez

Pretty much, but it is somehow still a patriarchy.

[zenkai]

if it ain't murder when the mother does it herself, it ain't murder when anyone else does it

that's like saying it aint stealing if the owner takes their car somewhere else

[Itisamuh]

It's messed up if she didn't have plans to abort the baby.

So it is messed up if they were not going to abort but not messed up if they were? That holds about as much merit to me as saying that murder is okay because the person was going to die anyway. Be glad your parents decided your life had more value than whatever plans they may or may not have had for you.

[Deleted]

Legally speaking: It is not where I live. Which is why you are also not charged with two counts of murder when you kill a woman in (early) pregnancy. It's a different offence.
Morally speaking: No, I don't think so. I don't consider abortion murder - so in this case it logically can't be murder either. That said, it obviously is still wrong and needs to be punished.

[Deleted]

that's like saying it aint stealing if the owner takes their car somewhere else

you're missing the point bro

if it can be legally aborted that means it's life/value/w/e is worth jack squat and can't be murder, because murder is illegal

why does it become murder when someone else does it instead of the mother? it's assault at best




something that's not considered a murder can't just become a murder because someone else does it, evidently women can't murder their fetuses because that would be illegal.

for stealing it's different, because if you own something you can't steal it yourself, but if someone steals it.. well then he steals it and it becomes theft.

[the game]

So it's not murder to get an abortion because the fetus isn't alive yet. But it is murder if someone slips a pill into the woman's drink because they killed a fetus.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Depends on the case and the judge. Some have been charged with murder of the fetus, but that mostly only happens if the mother was murdered, and most of the rest of the time it's assault

[Itisamuh]

I don't think they had abortions in Germany in 1985... but even if they did, my mum isn't that type of person.

Which, as I said, is fortunate. It just boggles my mind that nobody seems to see an issue with being "that type of person."

[vindicatorx]

What is with all the abortion shit on here lately. No, it's not murder it's a fetus.

[Ghostpanther]

I think in the US you are charged with murder for killing a fetus.

This is true. But also a good example of the level of our hypocrisy.

[Deleted]

This is true. But also a good example of the level of our hypocrisy.

yes and it's very obvious at that

[Forgettable]

Of course it is because abortion is murder.

[Wildtree]

yes yes, but if a woman 'kills' it it's clearly not murder

the question is

if someone else kills it, is it now suddenly murder? and if so, isn't that pretty messed up?

If I kill you, I go to prison for murder.
If the authorities execute you for something, it's not murder.

What's that mean?
Circumstance...
There's - in your op case - the obvious difference between a planned abortion, and a deliberate abortion without consent of the mother.

[Deleted]

If I kill you, I go to prison for murder.
If the authorities execute you for something, it's not murder.

What's that mean?
Circumstance...
There's - in your op case - the obvious difference between a planned abortion, and a deliberate abortion without consent of the mother.

if authorities execute somebody it's murder in my book so there's that, just less bad if it's a real scumbag they're executing, but I'm generally very much against the death penalty

anyway circumstance is important you're right, but when it's impossible for abortion to be considered murder (which it is, otherwise it'd be outlawed) it can't just magically become murder anyway if the woman is forced to do it, it's assault at best